geordieh Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Absoulutely, again in context, I'm a registered slaughterman, among other veterinary qualifications (I'm not a vet) and I've killed hundreds of animals but not eaten them. Beheading and incised severance of the spinal cord isn't humane, you killing a bird by concussion is, breaking the neck of a rodent is humane also, as the brain stem has been destroyed causing unconciousness immediately, these are important facts to the legality of the killing along with other possibly mitigated factors around this situation. Breaking a rodents neck is humane but breaking its neck by chopping its head off isn't, when you chop off its head don't you destroy the brain stem.Maybe this is what the police calls overkill.Yes sir we are quite happy for you to kill this fox with a 223 but you can't shoot it with a 308 because it would then be much too dead sir Geordie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 The issue was it was a tame rat released on the set for the camera. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 What about all those poor little insects that are poured into containers, which the celebs then crawl through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyr8 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 i think they should have killed the contestents and ate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 The issue was it was a tame rat released on the set for the camera. FM Twas' thats my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libs Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 i think they should have killed the contestents and ate them. Kim Woodburn would have kept them going for weeks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richie223 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Well, do you want to tell me that rat poison is humane, it`s one of the worst ways to go! but I agree to some extend and I see what you are trying to say. The scientific facts A team at the university of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout. The Halal method With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages. The Western method Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move. Appearances can deceive Not all is what it seems, then. Those who want to outlaw Islamic slaughter, arguing for a humane method of killing animals for food, are actually more concerned about the feelings of people than those of the animals on whose behalf they appear to speak. The stunning method makes mass butchery easier and looks more palatable for the consumer who can deceive himself that the animal did not feel any pain when he goes to buy his cleanly wrapped parcel of meat from the supermarket. Islamic slaughter, on the other hand, does not try to deny that meat consumption means that animals have to die, but is designed to ensure that their loss of life is achieved with a minimum amount of pain. The holistic view Modern Western farming and slaughter, on the other hand, aims at the mass consumer market and treats the animal as a commodity. Just as battery hens are easier for large-scale egg production, Western slaughter methods are easier for the meat industry, but they do neither the animal nor the end consumer any favours. well said sir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fancyacuppa Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 (edited) Why don't we all turn vegan, scrap all of out guns and traps and leave the little fluffy animals to take over the world? For God's sake, this was a RAT! Well said ! ! Edited December 7, 2009 by fancyacuppa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fancyacuppa Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Breaking a rodents neck is humane but breaking its neck by chopping its head off isn't, when you chop off its head don't you destroy the brain stem.Maybe this is what the police calls overkill.Yes sir we are quite happy for you to kill this fox with a 223 but you can't shoot it with a 308 because it would then be much too dead sirGeordie Ahh im lovin this thread, had a **** day at work today, this is class. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badger.22cal Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Just shows what type of world we live in... if a law has been broken then fair enough and the shows producers should except responsibility.... but come on it was a BLOODY RAT... all just more advertising and PR for the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 (edited) Knowing what a pile of fabricated tripe that programme is, I am 100% certain that it's just a moronic PR stunt for the airheads. I have no doubt at all that what these ***** were eating was KFC or some ****. Load of sensationalist rubbish. The "jungle" is a studio or hotel garden, the "rat" was KFC. The retards love it, they sit there gawping at their TV screens slackjawed Oh, and pleeeease don't bother trying to tell me that you saw the retard prepare the "rat" on TV so it must be real. I grew up some time ago. Edited December 7, 2009 by Chard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 I saw the retard prepare the rat on TV, so it must be real Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 (edited) I saw the retard prepare the rat on TV, so it must be real ******* students Edited December 7, 2009 by Chard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bangs Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 What the **** ? tree huggers are kicking off because they killed a rat ? what about all the poor kangaroos hopping around Oz with no balls and no ***** because the contestants ate em, crocodile feet, fish eyes and whatever else they killed and chopped up for entertainment is fine but to hurt a dirty stinking rat has them all up in arms... I'll never understand these ******* hippies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bb Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 i think they should have killed the contestents and ate them. They were brain dead already. As were the viewers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covlocks Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Halal killing isn't performed on the basis of ethics, its peformed because of the religious belief that a wounded animal (IE stunned by electroconvulsion/carbon dioxide or captive bolt) shouldn't be eaten, thats the ethical debate as Halal killing is lawful Not completely correct. The draining of the blood allows the meat keep longer and not spoil. This is a custom that precedes refridgerators, freezers and airconditioning, and originates from countries where the average temperature is pretty high. Like the non eating of pork, which does not keep in anything except cool conditions, and is considered "dirty" because warm condition allow the parasites and bateria to multiply at an alarming rate, these items have an underlying reason, which is re-enforced by the "law". The "law" being the Koran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George1990 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 But then again, who gives a ****? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 The "jungle" is a studio or hotel garden, From what I remember John Lyddon went absent for a bit. In later interviews it turned out he'd gone for a wander to try to find some _real_ jungle. Nial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seb Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 What the **** ? tree huggers are kicking off because they killed a rat ? what about all the poor kangaroos hopping around Oz with no balls and no ***** because the contestants ate em, crocodile feet, fish eyes and whatever else they killed and chopped up for entertainment is fine but to hurt a dirty stinking rat has them all up in arms... I'll never understand these ******* hippies. you beat me to it I was just about to mention the kangaroos. Are they going to get done for biting the heads of those fat whitchity grubs that were still alive, no didnt think so. The only difference is the grubs look disgusting and dont have little fury faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 you beat me to it I was just about to mention the kangaroos. Are they going to get done for biting the heads of those fat whitchity grubs that were still alive, no didnt think so. The only difference is the grubs look disgusting and dont have little fury faces. Grubs and insects are insentient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignoel Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 killing for tv rateings what about kill it cook it eat it .was that not killing for rateings no one seem to mind that lot more gory than a rat killing lol lol lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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