bad shot

[fieldwanderer]

I'm rubbish with a shotgun but not bad at all with a rifle, I've shot rifles for the last 15 years and that includes two years on the national squad shooting international matches but my performance with shotguns (been using them for about 5yrs) is appauling unless they're coming in to land or are already on the ground.

 

I'd say if I'm trying to hit pigeons as they fly somewhere I'll get 2-4 out of a box of 25 I've had a few days on clays and I'm not too bad at that - 20ish D.t.l and 15ish on ball trap - I just can't see what I'm doing wrong in the field - anyone got any advice?

 

Cartridges seem to have a big effect, I tend to buy the cheapest I can that are within a certain bracket ( 28-34gms and from 7s to 5s) My last lot were rio 32g 6s and I didn't do too bad with them (1 in 5shots or so) but I'm now on some 28g 6s (can't think of manufacturer) and I can't hit anything with them! In fact, I don't think I've hit anything yet and I'm on the fourth box I tend to use a 1/2 choke and the guns I've got both seem to fit me well.

 

Any help would be much appreciated!

[Ozzy Fudd]

simplify everything, go back to the basics and work your way up.

 

for starters, stick to one type of cartridge, i use 32g 6's for everything - rabbits, crows, pigeons, etc. that should help solve alot of the problems - different types of shell will give different shot patterns, etc, so if you stick to the one type itll be easier to get the hang of it.

 

2nd, get gun fit checked - you might think it fits you well but you may be surprised

 

3rd, use open or 1/4 choke and keep the shots close (under 20 yards) til you can confidently hit them most of the time - more open choke will give you a wider pattern so itll be easier to get a hit, also no point wasting a box at targets at 30+ yards if you cant hit one at 10!

 

final tip, if you can, go to a sporting clay layout, and get a friend to set off random clays for you - shotgun shooting is mostly instinct and snap shots, as you seem to do alot of rifle shooting you might need to brush up/improve on those

 

good luck, let us know how you get on, happy christmas!

Edited December 25, 2009 by babbyc1000

[Bleeh]

I have to agree.

 

I have always thought that shooting shotguns is something that people have started taking way to seriously, you can't even mention having problems without 'gun fit and eye domance' comming into the issue.

 

 

Firstly, if you are shooting pigeons, buy blooming pigeon cartridges. Those Feathery fellows can be resilliant at the best of times, and you might of had a few hits, but just not kills. Anything about 6'30 is what you should be looking at.

 

Secondly, are you getting over excited? - Shooting a close pigeon is harder than shooting a medium distance one (say 10 yards vs 25). The choke and spread of the pellets helps you, giving you a wider 'target area', you'll get better results shooting them as they are comming in, but not literaly right infront of you.

 

Thirdly. I'm sorry to say, but I can bet you a million pounds, you get over excited and rush your shots. Think about what your doing, check where the bead is and fire, keep the swing going as you shoot (Don't stop), it might take a few seconds longer, but it will make all the difference.

[Pinkfooty]

It's all there in the first two replies.

 

Stick to one gun and one cartridge. 30gm of 6s is ideal for pigeon out to 45 yards.

 

Pay a lot of attention to concealment and, as has been said, don't get excited or "poke" at the birds.

[dunganick]

Shooting clays is the same principle but its not the same. When practicing with clays go to a sporting ground, these will present you with much more realistic shots compared to DTL or B.T.

 

Other than that its practice i'm afraid. I've been shooting Shotgun about 10 years and my ratio on pigeon still seems to go up and down like a yoyo. I had a day a few weeks back where i shot about 15 birds for 20-25 carts (this is shooting a flight line, not decoying). Yet i've shot the same spot more recently and hit 1 or 2 for the same number of cartridges.

 

Alot of the variation is down to the distance of the birds. Naturally when there is very little about i take more distant shots, so my success rate falls.

 

My limited experience of decoying has lead me to the conclusion of wait until you dare not wait any longer and then take the shot, my reasoning behind this is that they have often committed by this point, so they have taken a little speed off and if they see you rise out of the hide/move then they will provide a seemingly larger target (with choke etc... its probably just the same size as ever) For the shots that get away from you or birds that come straight across the pattern i have found skeet to be a very close representation.

 

For what its worth i always buy the cheapest cartridges i can find, for the tiny variation in velocity or pattern quality i dont believe it makes a difference with game. As long as its between a 5 and 7 and 28-32grams

[fieldwanderer]

Thanks guys, I had a wee wander earlier with my side by side and hit two with two shots I never used to be able to hit anything with the thing and I used to do quite well with my auto instead! lol.

 

Anyway, I do agree with what's been said apart from the getting excited bit (no offence, I'm just a much more relaxed shooter than that). I do think a consistant ammunition / gun combo would be the best starting point - the guns both fit me well, I'm pretty sure of that (I bought them based on that) but they're very different beasts.

 

I'll go away and have a try and let you know how I get on! Thanks again and hope you've all had a good christmas.

[bruno22rf]

It seems to me that people who shoot rifles a lot have problems switching from the clinical precise method of rifles to the smooth casual swing of shotgun shooting.I wouldnt blame your gun too much nor your shells-you could shoot with any gun if you were used to it and i doubt that there's many shooters out there who can out perform your average shell.I would suggest that you stop telling yourself that you cant do it and concentrate on basic shots to build your confidence -chances are that you are a perfectly average shot to start with-you just dont know it. Good luck and enjoy it cos thats what its all about.

[stubby]

someone once said to me, aim a rifle, point a shotgun, I use an air rifle on a nightly basis for work (pest control feral pidgeons) and of course, my first few trips out with the shotgun, saw me using it like an air rifle,

 

Im getting better, but still have days when I revert back without thinking, just remember, point, dont aim

[mossy835]

well im **** with a rifle and good with a shotgun,thats why im giving up my fac in 3 years time.

[bruno22rf]

Im the Stevie Wonder of the shooting world thats why i'm giving up worrying about it.

[fieldwanderer]

someone once said to me, aim a rifle, point a shotgun, I use an air rifle on a nightly basis for work (pest control feral pidgeons) and of course, my first few trips out with the shotgun, saw me using it like an air rifle,

 

Im getting better, but still have days when I revert back without thinking, just remember, point, dont aim

 

I've heard that one too - you'd think I'd've got the hang of it by now though Saying that though, I tend to use the rifles 90% in the summer and shotguns 90% in the winter which probably doesn't help much but it just seems to work out that they're the right tools for the job summer / winter i.e - long range bunnies in the warm months where laying in the grass for hours on end is actually quite pleasent and not many pigeons about and in the winter you're lucky to ever see a rabbit on my permission so it tends to switch to other quarrys though the pigeons do get hammered quite a bit when corn's on the cards in the summer I can hit them no problem, it's birds crossing, high up or fast that I can't get and that seems to be how they are mostly at this time of year

 

even the bum-belly-beak-bang trick doesn't seem to work for me. Actually, all this talk of shooting's seriously tempting me to get out there and do some I'll be back later though

[zipdog]

when you shoot a shotgun you must make sure you are looking at the bird, not a the beed.

[sandy22]

go to a sporting ground, these will present you with much more realistic shots compared to DTL or B.T.

 

Other than that its practice i'm afraid.

 

+1

 

Skeet would also be more suitable than DTL/Balltrap

[fieldwanderer]

hmmm, can't say I'm all that fond of clay shooting to be honest guys - a bit too expensive for me and skeet didn't seem as much help as I'd hoped; I had a guy with me who told me just where to "aim" for each peg, once you've got that straight in your head there doesn't seem to be much to learn from it if you see what I mean, when you miss you can usually see where the shot went and tell yourself off for pulling the trigger when the bead wasn't where you wanted it.

 

my main trouble is that I don't often see where the shot went when in the field, so I can't think "o.k. I need to give 'em more lead" or "hmm, that went well high of that one - I need to aim lower" I can't see enough to learn from my mistakes which is quite frustrating really!

[groach1234]

My bit of advice is stick with one cartridge and go to a shooting school and treat yourself to a few lessons they will be expensive but money well spent no doubt i would also recommend a quick eye dominance check all the best

 

George

[ForeignGadger]

I totally agree with George. And: if you wear glasses, get distance ones with a yellow tint speak to www.specs-by-post.co.uk = unbeatable)

As one who shoots alot of rifle with specialist optics, I found that varifocals screwed up my shotgun shooting, in that I tended to focus on the forsight of the gun, rather than the target, resulting in "aiming the shotgun" and not swinging through.

 

Just had beaters day : I shot 17 (high) pheasants and 5 ducks with 48 carts: so well chuffed.

 

Back to NSRA targets on monday.......

 

Keep at it: shooting both is possible, but you have to separate the two activities.(Mentally)

 

FG

 

 

 

My bit of advice is stick with one cartridge and go to a shooting school and treat yourself to a few lessons they will be expensive but money well spent no doubt i would also recommend a quick eye dominance check all the best

 

George

[utectok]

I'd say practise a sporting layout of clays not dtl and ball trap IMHO this is better for learning to shoot live game. I guess your missing behind 99 per cent of my misses are missed behind not moving the gun through the target or stopping on pulling the triger all basic stuff but a challenge for me!

[fieldwanderer]

Don't worry - I'm taking this all in (though some I've heard before) I don't mean to come across as arrogant, I'm just trying to explain the problem.

 

Right, I'm right eye dominant - no doubt about it but a fair point

 

I mentioned my scores for b.t and dtl more to say "I can do clays, but not pigeons" than anything - I don't particularly like clay shooting to be honest, I have tried though and it didn't help me much - yes I've tried skeet and sporting but to no avail.

 

I know to keep moveing and I'm pretty sure I do but I'm struggling to learn where to "aim" i.e; I don't see the shot, there's no holes in a piece of paper, so I've no way of knowing what I'm doing wrong - I follow through properly but there's that much going on in that second or so I just don't see anything. I'll try giving more lead as you're not the first to say you usually miss behind. I'd guess my usual lead would be roughly a foot for a normal bird (just flapping along) and more like three to five for very high / fast birds if that's any help?

[ForeignGadger]

For what its worth: I find that talking about "such and such lead" in distance not very helpful.

(It also depends on the range of the shot and the angle at which the target is moving).

 

I try to vizualise lead in degrees or size of angle, but even then it is very rough, and is more instinctive than scientific.

 

Can anyone tell me that ;

1) at a range of 25 -50 yards (in itself an estimate done in a second or two),

2) on a target NOT at a constant distance from the shooter,

they can claim to tell me the "lead" from the target to the point of impact at the time of pulling the trigger?

(Especially as the gun is (or should be) swinging through, possibly accelerating as well).

 

I doubt it very much; in any case how do you prove it?

 

Trying to judge the ANGLE at a particular range, on a particular trajectory might have some logic; but at the end of the day (which will be long) , all things being equal (which they are not), bye and large, to be totally honest, be that as it may etc etc......

we are taliking about an instinctive flick of the muzzle, brought about by practice on a variety of shots, (hopefully a few of them identical so you can "get the hang of it").

 

The key to fieldwanderer's difficulty is his mention of "struggling to learn WHERE TO AIM". If you aim, you miss. Aiming is OK on DTL and BT, there is little sideways movement of the muzzle. Try it on sporting and you will fail.

 

FG

Edited December 27, 2009 by ForeignGadger

[utectok]

really hard to discribe lead I think but I was once told that for the average crossing bird at 30 yrds about a cartridge length at the end of the barrels. Gotta keep the gun moving though I try and acelerate the gun away from the target as I pull the trigger. I still miss loads though but I do practise as much as I can afford! The weird thing is if I start measuring. Gun target I miss where as if I don't think about it I sometimes hit?!

[fieldwanderer]

now we're starting to get to to the point. I mentioned aim but in "these" because I know you don't aim a shotgun but at the end of the day it needs to be pointing in the right place to hit what you want to BUT I'm struggling to learn where that is.

 

Don't take this the wrong way, I learned a long time ago not to change too much at once so I'll leave it for now and see how I get on with what's been said sofar - no doubt I'll be back with plenty of questions though.

[Devilishdave]

Dont practice DTL practice sporting and shoot at a number of differant grounds to get a wide variation of targets and back drops. I find if I shoot sporting on my local ground I do better than away and I put it down to the fact that even if I haven't shot the target before because I know the background I can judge speed and distance better.

 

ATB

 

Dave