roughshooter Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Hello you very knowledgeable people, I am just about to start reloading 12 g shotgun shells having bought a old secondhand MEC 600 jr mk3. It is set up I believe to make 32g carts already. It only has one charge bar with it which is marked as 12g .2. the final crimp was broken so I have ordered the black zytel crimp upgrade from clay and game which should be here in the next couple of days along with some plaswad and I have a couple of bags of no. 8 shot. It came with a tub (500g) of Nobel number 80 powder. I could just take a gamble and reload with this powder and shot as set up but being fond of my fingers I feel I should check out some load data but can't find anything for this powder and am also unable to weigh how much shot is coming out. I am not an idiot but am finding this reloading all a bit complicated!!! Can anyone help or advise or should I just sell it all on and buy a lee loadall Regards Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughshooter Posted January 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Forgot to say it came with a cox of 100 CCI 109 primers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) The Mecs a good single stage press. I believe that the instruction manuals are still on line at MEC for older units and that the current charge bars with powder bushings may be a retro fit. Without a Nobel 80 load data sheet I'd be inclined to consider fresh powder with data and appropriate sized new bushing .. The MEC Powder bushing chart covers a range of powders (but not N 80) My powder charts show Nobel 80 as one of the faster powders but I am not sure it is in current production? As to shot load you could throw a measure and count pellets..... 32g #8 = 504 approx??? It beats watching snow. The Lee powder scales are not fancy but they work Sorry cannot be more help. Lyman Handbook says CCi 109 & 209 are interchangeable with cosmetic difference - standard shotgun primers. Edited January 9, 2010 by seeker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughshooter Posted January 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 The Mecs a good single stage press. I believe that the instruction manuals are still on line at MEC for older units and that the current charge bars with powder bushings may be a retro fit. Without a Nobel 80 load data sheet I'd be inclined to consider fresh powder with data and appropriate sized new bushing .. The MEC Powder bushing chart covers a range of powders (but not N 80) My powder charts show Nobel 80 as one of the faster powders but I am not sure it is in current production? As to shot load you could throw a measure and count pellets..... 32g #8 = 504 approx??? It beats watching snow. The Lee powder scales are not fancy but they work Sorry cannot be more help. Lyman Handbook says CCi 109 & 209 are interchangeable with cosmetic difference - standard shotgun primers. Thanks for that - I will start counting I suppose. I have a lee podwer scale but the pellet throw is too heavy for it!! Regards Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) Nobel 80 was discontinued some 15 years ago, but supplies keep popping up. Even Nobel 60 and 62 appear sometimes! Here we go: ALL of the loads listed in my book range from 23grains to 26grains so you are not going to blow yourself unless you do something silly. Nobel 80 is a very BULKY powder and designed for homeloading. We used to call it 'idiot proof' but, there are some twits out there! It is difficult to overload a shell using this powder with a plaswad and 30grams of shot! OK. State what lead load you want, the primer you have, and whether you are loading plastic/fibre wad. What will they be used for? Clays? Pigeons? Rabbits? The ball is in your court. FC Edited July 15, 2010 by Floating Chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) Throw a load of shot from the MEC and weigh the shot-charge in two or three amounts and add the results together. The sum will be in GRAINS, so divide your result by 15.432 to get the weight in GRAMS. Do this a few times to get an average weight. Throw a charge of powder and weigh it. Tell me what you get (EACH) in 5 'throws'. What sizes of shot do you have? Edited January 9, 2010 by Floating Chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughshooter Posted January 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Throw a load of shot from the MEC and weigh the shot-charge in two or three amounts and add the results together. The sum will be in GRAINS, so divide your result by 15.432 to get the weight in GRAMS. Do this a few times to get an average weight. Having spent half an hour at the kitchen table I have counted the little blighters and cam up with 502 of the 8 shot. There is another bag odf shot there as well which is slightly bigger that I thought was 8 but is probably 7 or 71/2 as it threw 480 pellets. I was going to use all this shot up on clays and have ordered some plaswads from clay game which are his budget dc wads (18 per 1000). I will 2 3/4" cases probably kents as I have a fair few of these to shoot off. I only have 100 of the CCI 109 primers so I will need to get some more of those if they are still in existance or a suitable replacement for them. By the time all that powder and shot is gone then I hope to have the hang of it and will probably just reload for rough shooting which I will use fibre wad carts for. Thanks Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 I used to use 24.5grns of no 80 with 1 1/8 load of shot. Its a good powder and shoots well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntingwithhawks Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Hello you very knowledgeable people, I am just about to start reloading 12 g shotgun shells having bought a old secondhand MEC 600 jr mk3. It is set up I believe to make 32g carts already. It only has one charge bar with it which is marked as 12g .2. the final crimp was broken so I have ordered the black zytel crimp upgrade from clay and game which should be here in the next couple of days along with some plaswad and I have a couple of bags of no. 8 shot. It came with a tub (500g) of Nobel number 80 powder. I could just take a gamble and reload with this powder and shot as set up but being fond of my fingers I feel I should check out some load data but can't find anything for this powder and am also unable to weigh how much shot is coming out. I am not an idiot but am finding this reloading all a bit complicated!!! Can anyone help or advise or should I just sell it all on and buy a lee loadall Regards Graham Hi Graham, on the end of your bar it will have a set of numbers like 502 / or 302 / the second set of numbers is the shot weight. also take the bar out and have a look at the powder bust it will have a number on, if you tell me what it is I will have a look at my data. and PM you a load. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughshooter Posted January 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Hi Graham, on the end of your bar it will have a set of numbers like 502 / or 302 / the second set of numbers is the shot weight. also take the bar out and have a look at the powder bust it will have a number on, if you tell me what it is I will have a look at my data. and PM you a load. Kevin The end of the bar has no markings apart from 12GA.2. This is an old mark 3 apparently from 1972. The powder bushing in the charge bar has 22 in large numbers and what looks like 82 in smaller numbers plus some extra etchings on it - the joys of secondhand eh!! There are 6 other bushings marked - .526, .469, .477, .513, .533, .512, Hope this makes some kind of sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) I used to use 24.5grns of no 80 with 1 1/8 load of shot. Its a good powder and shoots well. Totally agree! The old Eley 'Trapshooting' load! Fantastic! That'll be a good starting point for him. good for clays and with no.6 shot, fantastic pattern for pigeon! FC Edited January 9, 2010 by Floating Chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 (edited) From memory (bad source) those figure could be the internal diameter of the powder bush in inches, or thou? Later MEC just used the two digit numbers to "KISS" .. unless you can find an older MEC load chart or fancy swapping measurements with someone who has the new ones there is always the "throw 5 powder loads - weigh each one & average method" .. bit like counting shot. I only have the smaller sizes for 28g. loads. Www. trapshooters.com may be worth a search too. I do not know if MEC have the older bushing data on their site - but they can be very helpful with info .. try an email? Edited January 10, 2010 by seeker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughshooter Posted January 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Hi Guys - thanks for all the input, I actually think it is starting to make a little sense to me now. The main issue I have is the powder bushings are the old imperial markings and do not work with todays charts. It seems I have a charge bar that throws 32g of shot. The new crimper should be here tomorrow so I will weigh some of the powder throws today and hopefully make a few loads up tomorrow night!!! I understand mec do a universal charge bar so this is probably hte way to go to give me a better range of loads. I am sure I will be back on for more assistance soon Regards GHraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 The end of the bar has no markings apart from 12GA.2. This is an old mark 3 apparently from 1972. The powder bushing in the charge bar has 22 in large numbers and what looks like 82 in smaller numbers plus some extra etchings on it - the joys of secondhand eh!!There are 6 other bushings marked - .526, .469, .477, .513, .533, .512, Hope this makes some kind of sense 'Sherlock' Chamber: 'Watson, could the 1972 reference and the 22/82 mean that this press was used to throw 22grains of Nobel 82 for use in a Winchester AA case? It was a very popular load in the Kidderminster area at that time!' Watson: 'What?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughshooter Posted January 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Got the lee perfect powder measure out and........ the largest powder bushing I have is throwing 23.6 grains of the nobel powder. How does this stack up in terms of a load?? Regards Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Got the lee perfect powder measure out and........ the largest powder bushing I have is throwing 23.6 grains of the nobel powder. How does this stack up in terms of a load?? Regards Graham Isn't that about perfect for a 1 1/8th oz load Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 (edited) 23- 24 grains is for 1 1/8 oZ /32gm according to my data. Edited January 10, 2010 by Andy H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Sounds good .. FWIW the bushing that throws that load is probably the equivalent of a #39 or 40 on the new system .... because of the variables go by what weight is actually thrown with your tin of powder rather than by what the chart says .... I have 3 different charts, they differ by up to 2 grains and have the usual disclaimerd about time of day, style and batch! Interestingly the Lee cc approach seems the most consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughshooter Posted January 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Thanks Guys - hopefully the crimp will arrive tomorrow and I can get some loaded up regards Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughshooter Posted January 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Well I have to say a big thankyou to everyones who helped me with load suggestions!!! I fired my first few reloads off today with 23.6 grains of nobel 80, cci 109 primer and 32g of no.8. They were smooth to shoot and killed lovely albeit slightly noiser than the kents I was using. I picked loads of empty cases up from the shoot and have sorted them into 70mm and 65/67mm and will load a good few up before next sunday using the 70mm cases. I only had 100 cci 109 primers and I understand that cci 209 are exactly the same??? I will be buying more powder in the next few weeks and would be interested in recommendations from others as to a good allround powder/primer combination Thanks again Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Try peter lawman in northampton Vectan A1 £15-95 1/2kg http://www.peterlawman.co.uk/shotshell.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughshooter Posted January 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I presume poder and primers cannot be posted?? Bit of a trek to Northampton but may have to do it if nothing is available closer to Worcester Regards Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Sounds as tho' you've cracked it! Did you get Clay& Games Catalogue with the crimp? If not you can download it at http://www.claygame.co.uk/ .. I believe powder gets a Hazmat Fee + courier ++ gets pricey to post? Not sure if primers are 'collect only' so your SGC can be seen? Have you phoned your local / most friendly gunshop to see what they keep? What's available may make your component choice for you! And if the bug really bites there are plenty of sites with 'how to make your own shot at home' threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermin Eradicator Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 Have a tin of Nobel 82 powder that i have just opened. Those experts that say they know powder have had a look at it and and say it is as good as new. I want to load 20 gauge shells 23/4 inch 1 ounce loads but unable to fine any data for 20 gauge for Nobel 82 powder on any web site. Can anyone help?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 Hi Graham, Nobel 80 is a great powder, coupled with a plaswad, and 1 &1/8th shot, makes a very nice all round load. I still have a few tins of this powder, and, kept in good cool conditions, just keeps on giving! I have several modern powders, but still keep going back to Old Faithful 80 ! Good shooting! Have a tin of Nobel 82 powder that i have just opened. Those experts that say they know powder have had a look at it and and say it is as good as new. I want to load 20 gauge shells 23/4 inch 1 ounce loads but unable to fine any data for 20 gauge for Nobel 82 powder on any web site. Can anyone help?. I may have some data buried in my shed....I,ll take a look later. Dave I presume poder and primers cannot be posted?? Bit of a trek to Northampton but may have to do it if nothing is available closer to WorcesterRegardsGraham Try Norman Clark at Rugby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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