scarter Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 i have been wondering about this for a while now and want to get to the bottom of it. i help out doing the gamekeeping on a small shoot that rent the shooting rights from 2 farms. what i want to know is what rights do we have to the land,e.g. do we have the right to choose who shoots the vermin on there too for example foxes to stop them taking our gamebirds and also the rabbits to stop them from eating our cover crops as they come up in the spring/summer time. there are i think at the moment 3 or 4 people shooting on the land with rifles that are nothing to do with the shoot that have't asked the shoot captain for permission but have just asked the farmer. i am worried and concerned about the people with rifles on the land who are nothing to do with the shoot as one night we took some wheat out and there was someone out at the same time with a lamp and rifle very close to us shooting rabbits. what do you gus think about this,who do u think the rifle shooting on the land should go through to make it safer?what right do u think they should have shooting on the land being nothing to do with the shoot as the shoot pays the rent every year? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 If you rent the game shooting rights then you do not control the vermin shooting. That said talk to the farmers and they will explain more, but I shoot on a mates farm and we do most of the vermin control yet he lets the game shooting. They hate it but its tough as no one is going to stop him controlling rabbits and pigeons. obviously you have to use sense and we do most shooting out of season and before the poults go down etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarter Posted February 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 so do u and your mate talk with the game shoot captain and sorta make agreements on where you shoot and when u shoot?because dont u think its dangerous us out feeding and at the same time people out shooting rifles?any suggestions of a way round it? cheers mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 nope as the gamekeeper is an ****, however we do only lamp at night when he isn't about and if he were to turn up the only entrance is through the farmyard with farmhouse where someone always knows we are about. Generally when shooting you have to be aware where you are shooting as there could be people anywhere on this farm so we are super careful. Options I've seen are red flags out to show people are out etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colster Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 I have a similar situation on one farm, we do all our shooting by arrangement with the farmer (both lamping at night and deer stalking during the day) but during the actual pheasant shooting season we stay off. The syndicate don't like us going there once the birds are released but that was overruled by the farmer so we compromised by staying away only for the duration of the actual season. If the farmer thinks the syndicate are likely to be about (one of them is an odd-job man for the farmer) while we're shooting, he'll let them know. There have been fall-outs in the past but mostly an uneasy peace is reached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpicide Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 One of the syndicates calls us on with terriers to control foxes there is great rabbit shooting and pigeon shooting and the guys on the shoot only wan't to shoot pheasants I reckon Nobs might get some good shooting for some of the beaters under these circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarter Posted February 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 so who do you boys think the lamping should go through(when people go out and where)the shoot captain or farmer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 At the end of the day, it is an issue that can get very complicated. It depends on what the contract to let game shooting says. Even more complicated with tenant farmers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarter Posted February 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 both farms are owned and run by the owners no tenant farmers involved,now what do u think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkill Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 both farms are owned and run by the owners no tenant farmers involved,now what do u think? i have land where i have nothing to do with the owners but go through the chap who has the shooting rights who lives quite a few miles away from the shoot and have had no problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 I shoot on land courtesy of a farmer who manages the crop production of a sprawling estate. There are shoots on several parcels of land but the gamekeepers just don't bother with the vermin control so the farmer has me do the job which mildly irks the gamekeepers. I step down after stubble has been disked/ploughed in, usually by early September - till the ground has dried out by about early March. I have other livestock places I can shoot during that period so each type of land gets a few months rabbit control abatement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colster Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 so who do you boys think the lamping should go through(when people go out and where)the shoot captain or farmer? Is the syndicate responsible for controlling vermin? On some land, the farmers make it conditional that in return for the use of the land, they control the vermin. If not, then you only "need" to tell the landowner, it's not a bad idea to let the syndicate know though. We have a standing arrangement with ours that we'll be on there on a Tuesday night, any other time (for deer etc) we'll text one of the syndicate as well as the farmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeymagic1969 Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 You need to find out if you have rented the game shooting rights or the sporting rights, if the later then only your syndicate can shoot on the land ( apart from one nominated person for each farm to control the vermin ( nominated by the farmer) - remember foxes are not classed as vermin for most FAC owners). Have a talk with your farmers/land owners to find out what you have rented. On the estates I shoot on, the keepers would not allow anyone to shoot anything unless they agreed it first - even the vermin control, as they say to the farmers ask us first and if we dont sort it out, then you are free to get someone else in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) A long standing game syndicate I know of has decided not to renew their lease, entirely due to the farmer letting pigeon shooters into the woods during the season! And the pigeon shooters have been pig headed enough to take advantage of it, even though they were fully aware of the fact it would be detrimental to the pheasant shooters sport, who were working lads just like the pigeon shooters. Edited February 23, 2010 by scolopax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 If I held the game shooting rights and did not have exclusivity on the rabbiting then I would ensure that there was not a bunny left on the place, no rabbits, no rabbiters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bothbarrels Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 At the end of the day, it is an issue that can get very complicated. It depends on what the contract to let game shooting says. Even more complicated with tenant farmers. Just to squeeze in on this converstation, can't you get to know the pest control guys? and communicate with each other, so you know wqho's out and what time etc? I know for a fact if I shot pest control on a farm where there is a syndicate shooting pheasants, I'd have no problem with a quick call or text telling them I'm out on the land seems reasonable doesn't it? BB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigstevouk Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 If I held the game shooting rights and did not have exclusivity on the rabbiting then I would ensure that there was not a bunny left on the place, no rabbits, no rabbiters. I'm glad as shooters we all stick together.... with this selfish attitude no wonder people find it hard to get shooting!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Out of interest, why aren't any of your syndicate offering to do the vermin control too? Would have thought it was a good opportunity for out of season shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasons gold Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Out of interest, why aren't any of your syndicate offering to do the vermin control too? Would have thought it was a good opportunity for out of season shooting I thought the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarter Posted February 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 its one of those syndicates where you see a handful of people through the season helping out(4 or 5) and see the rest on the fist shoot of the season,a few of them live f fair way away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarter Posted February 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 going back on what someone said about sporting rights,what does this mean?what advantages does it have over just game shootng rights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonsterandmerlin. Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 There is real issues with this subject all with PROS and CONS But in my time as a shooter it has become clear there too many keepers etc who think they are gods not all but most. But the fact is that the landowner is the king I have know on one shoot who lost there cracking game rights over the farmers children playing in the fields and the keeper giving them a ear full . I know that leasing game rights makes you have some rights over things but the truth you still dont own the land so is very hard to dictate the goings on. Also some shoots say they going to control vermin and they dont which inturn if said shooter turns up and says he is going straight away sort the rabbits out of course he is going to let them go. We all know a trusted shooter can perform good vermin control within the game season with out damage to game . Yes you can shoot pigeons without upsetting pheasants even though ever keeper will say it not poss thats why when we shot pigeons we have a herd of pheasants in the deeks. The days of victorian keepers has gone even though some still think thay can dicate to us. The final word on my permissions goes to farmer not anybody else if he tells me to stop then I will stop. Regards OTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarter Posted February 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 thanks for all your help guys ill have a word with the shoot captain and land owners and see what the score is. cheers boys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) so do u and your mate talk with the game shoot captain and sorta make agreements on where you shoot and when u shoot?because dont u think its dangerous us out feeding and at the same time people out shooting rifles?any suggestions of a way round it?cheers mate I had the same problem on a lump of land on a part my shoot, farmer happy to take my money but also let all and sundry shoot all over it. Luckily it was only a small farm which bordered the main one I rented. I did the right thing at first, I offered a 'cheap' syndicate place to the local shooters which I though they would bite on. Alas they were just ignorant, and the final straw was when I caught three of them with pheasants in hand and about to take a free shoot on one of the flight ponds. Obviously there attitude is why should they pay when they go for nothing?? I spent the next three months completely eradicating every single vermin threat on the land. Everytime one of them turned up for a shoot I or another was there.With a mixture of shooting, ferreting and the good old rodernator I completely took the availability down to nowt. I clanged every fox,rabbit,pigeon and crow with-in the boundaries to the point it was a no-man's land. The farmer was well pleased, told the shooters not to bother any more and then I told him to poke his land where the sun don't shine. To be honest where rifles are concerned, and this is'nt being selfish- I want exclusive rights from a safety point of view. That is not being greedy it is just having common sense. If I shoot somewhere and someone else pulls on, if an amicable arrangement can't be reached then I move off. If I am paying rent for shooting rights then I do the vermin too. I take it upon as part of management of the land. If the farmer does'nt like that arrangement then I would'nt take his land. Its the same if I rent it and then there is a break down in communications and people are let on I just let it go. I know people are desperate for shooting in many cases, but fortunately in my neck of the woods there is alot of shooting avaialable if you want it and treat it correctly. Been there too many times before, rounds whizzling over your head and all that and I won't stand for it. Edited February 24, 2010 by starlight32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarter Posted February 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 what type of shooting rights do you have mate are they game shooting rights or sporting rights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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