FTCH

[darren m]

how important do you think having a dog with a pedigree full of FTCH is ?

 

are they 100% neccersary to turn out a good working dog .

 

when looking at 5 generation pedigrees , will just a few FTCH in the dogs past help , as in way back in the 4th and 5th generation , or do you need something more recent for the instinct to rub off

 

and is it essential to have both parents working .

 

Reason i ask is -- while looking through various gun dogs for sale ads all over the web and making phone calls , you often can suss out the ads where people are breeding there dogs just because they have a good linage and trying to turn some cash ( nothing wrong with that at all ) . but some ads also say make great "working dogs" , when you know only too well that theres no way the breeder could know that

 

it just made me start thinking about how important it all is .

 

what do you think ??

[bi9johnny]

there is no guarantee just like if you and your mrs are professors doesn't mean your kids won't be coke snorting chav's (i know a bit extreme)...... but i think it is down to who and how the dogs trained

give it as good a start as you can with the more ftch but again it's no guarantee

i bred a lab a few years back very little in the way of ftch in pedigree as she was offa my own bitch but hell she was a brilliant dog of which i was offered thousands for off big money dog men

so just goes to show mate

regards

john

[Lloyd90]

Even if say the grandmother is not a FTCh she may be a great working dog. And may even be litter sister or something to a FTCH dog.

 

Also alot of people dont trial there dogs but still work them so A dog with little FTCh in recent years doesnt mean the dog wont be a fantastic worker.

Its probally a good idea to get a few of something but not essential. My dogs mother is FTAW which isnt huge but proves shes doing something right . For a newbie owner I wouldnt be overly concerned about it. Some people say with too many FTCH you can get a dog thats "too hot" for a newbie owner to handle.

Look at the parents, talk to the breeder and best of luck

[blacklab]

If you want to trial the dog then I personally would look at getting a pup with some FTCH in the pedigree, that's not saying a dog with no Ftch in their pedigree wont trial. If you want the dog for rough shooting, pigeon shooting, picking up etc why go to the expence of a top pedigree dog. On saying that I have a potential customer who has put his name down for one of my pups with 40+ FTCH in pedigree, when his son a game keeper has put his bitch in pup the same time as me and he only wants the pup for beating & picking up.

 

A lot of how the dog turns out is down to the trainer.

 

good luck in your choice

 

Lee

[darren m]

my older springer of 17 months as a pedigree that is mostly red with FTCH and i can see that in her

 

the new pup , i,m talking about is only 10 weeks old , she as some FTCH in the ped but not many , and they are back on the 4th and 5th generation.

i bought her mainly on looks 1st as i wanted this one to have a lot more colour , guess its all down to me really and how i train them .

 

interesting to hear from anyone thats done well with a none FTCH, FTAW though , gives us hope

[rickyspringer]

nice subject to raise, i personally feel that the breeding has alot to do with it, "breed the best- train the rest" is a statement & i think alot of truth goes into it.

 

but on the other hand I think that if a pedigree is full of red that the pups may be too hot to handle for novice handlers.

 

my two spaniels don't have a pedigree brimming with ftch, my bitch is off a keeper, and she has good lines running through her, but no immediate ftch early in pedigree. she has alot in the 4th & 5th, and then there is my youngster, virtually no ftch in pedigree except for the odd 1 or 2 way back. he has been a dream to train & a real natural.

 

i personally think it boils down to horses for courses, top triallers won't go out and buy a pet bred spaniel from up the road, they want to give themselves the best chance of making a "ftch" where as the average shooter will be happy with a dog which suits them.

 

RS

[lewis]

Remember, If you are going to buy a pup, and the dog has any SHCH's in its pedigree walk away

Edited March 23, 2010 by lewis

[Lloyd90]

Remember, If you are going to buy a pup, and the dog has any SHCH's in its pedigree walk away

 

Whats that ?

[lewis]

Show champion

[Spaniel]

My 4 year old as the following in 4 generations

18 FTCH

7 FTW

 

I suppose you could call her as being Hot and maybe to much for my 1st Springer, but she covers the ground fast and turns instantly on the whistle, retrieves are at full speed,

Im going to enter her in her 1st working test some time this year, if i had any bad point to improve upon it would be her hunting, she covers the ground but not with her nose down, so im working on this at the present.

 

Yep taken me 4 years but i can see im almost there with her

[blacklab]

My 4 year old as the following in 4 generations

18 FTCH

7 FTW

 

I suppose you could call her as being Hot and maybe to much for my 1st Springer, but she covers the ground fast and turns instantly on the whistle, retrieves are at full speed,

Im going to enter her in her 1st working test some time this year, if i had any bad point to improve upon it would be her hunting, she covers the ground but not with her nose down, so im working on this at the present.

 

Yep taken me 4 years but i can see im almost there with her

 

 

Good for you !!!!!!!!

best of luck with the tests & hopefully trials.

 

Lee

[KillStone]

Well i dont really know but got lucky with my new lab pup that i pick up in 12 days (not that im counting!!). in 5 generations she has 31 FTCH!! So hopefully i will get on really well!!! personally i can see that the genetics could have a large effect however behaviour isnt all from breeding and so i would also believe that a good trainer would be able to train a pup of non-working heritage. so u choose wat u want to believe.

[WGD]

Trial awards are proof of working background and a strong indication that a pup will have the right instincts, but the best indication you will get of your pup's temperament is to see the sire and dam in home and working environments.

 

Personally I wouldn't buy a pup with no FTCh in the pedigree and if I couldn't see the sire I would look for a FTCh dog to have covered the dam.

 

That said, I know a dog that is currenty trialling and has no FTCh in it's 3 gen pedigree.

 

As RS said, "Breed for the best, train for the rest" has a lot of truth in it, but if the training isn't up to scratch then the best bred dog in the world is likely to be hot enough to become the worst behaved!

[Lloyd90]

In Skye's Pedigree her mother is Ftaw and Crufts Ft Class Winner, her pedigree has Parents, Grand Parents, Great Grand Parents and Great Great Grand Parents. All together there are 15 FTCH, 1 Int FT Ch and 7 FTW's

 

I dont really know that much about pedigrees to be honest lol. Is this good ? In the Great Great Grandparents every dog except 1 is either a FTCH or FTW

[grumpy gouse]

I remember when i got my first lab, i was telling some of the lads on our shoot that she had so many FDCH's and then so many FTW's in her pedegree....and old wise shoot member quietly put down his pipe and said "Yes but Frank Sinatra's brother couldnt sing"

[MC]

I remember when i got my first lab, i was telling some of the lads on our shoot that she had so many FDCH's and then so many FTW's in her pedegree....and old wise shoot member quietly put down his pipe and said "Yes but Frank Sinatra's brother couldnt sing"

 

 

True enough,

 

But if Frank Sinatras mother and father and all his great grandparents could sing then there is a better than fair chance his brother could be trained to sing.

 

A pedigree really is no different to a service history and MOT on a car. It just shows the history of the dog and if you didn't have Ftch and FTW then it would just be a list of names.

[Kron]

My tuppence....

 

To a new comer it is a bit of a lottery. Unless you know absolutely what you are doing it is best to improve the chances of getting a dog with the right instincts. How do you do that? Look for some FTCH in the pedigree. Not necessarily all but certainly some.

 

K

[pigeon toes]

To see FTCH in a dogs pedigree can never be a bad thing and only gives reasurance that the dog should have the in-built instinct to do the job.Saying this though dogs within a litter can have completely different characters from their siblings.The most importatnt thing is the person training the dog.A calm,quiet demeanour with the dog from the off and unlimited patience is key.Even if you get a really hot dog which is full of beans this can be trained to work in a similar way to a more laid back dog which needs more of a push.Its a lottery!!

[charliespaniel]

if you are after agood working dog for general shooting etc then you would be ok buying apup with ftch some where in there back ground and go for something you liked or were recomended if you train it right it would more than likly be ok but if you wanted to go trialing you would probaly have to get something with ftch closer ihave no experience with trialing but my two spaniels are half brother and sister shadow is five and has always been a good allrounder were as belle whos grandfather is chewky wolf is on fire they have the same mother but are two totaly different dogs

[chris o]

i am on my first dog he is 6 months now and he has not got any papers mum and dad were not working dogs neither grand parents. but he is a cracking little dog i guess ftch and ftw is a bit of a bonus but i reckon it is down to the handler and the training he is of full pedigree and for 6 months does all the basics extremely well with very little mistakes walks to heel with no tugging on the lead and marks retrieves very well.

all in all personally i dont think you need loads of ftch in his line you get out what you put in. in my case so far i have put endless hours in to studying training methods and training and it is paying off.

if you work hard enough you get what you want out of it.

[Popgun]

A good trialing pup maybe to hot for a rough shooter or beater, ive got a dog breed by a trailing judge with a very good papers his farther was a tripel field trial champ and his mother a field trial champ he was far to hot for me to handel so he's just a pet now, my other pups field trial champs are back in the great great grand parents,and he is a very good working dog,the first dog was just to good for me with a good trainer he would have been a brillent gun dog.

[Markio]

Wanted to dig up this thread as i'm in the same quandary.

 

Looking for my first Lab pup and will ultimately want to use it for: a bit of rough shooting, in a pigeon hide, picking up/beating and possibly on the marsh as well as a family pet.

 

Now i've not trained a dog for working purposes before and won't be trialling etc. As there are so many non-ftch & ftw available will i really be handicapping myself by considering theses?

I hear what everyone is saying that it's great to have those working lines evident (makes sense) but given decent training and a 'light' working life will the natural instincts of a lab still work well for me?