COUNTRY FILE THIS MORNING.

[Frank]

Just seen Country file. On it they said that another cull is to follow this year, as apparently, last years cull was not enough and they want 8,000 odd or more deer culled this year and next year.

Its to do with protecting the alpine plants ect, what a load of S---TE!! :<

I totally disagree with this, its a mass waist more like.

They will mainly be using helicopters to shoot from and then going to round them up in a pen and lamped them at night, using 'Silencers' as they put it.

Im appalled, it will do a lot of damage to the magnifecent deer population of Scotland i think. :o

Here is some info off the Country File web site:

Red deer cull

 

 

Nancy Nicolson reports on plans to cull more than 8,000 Scottish red deer to save rare arctic plants.

 

The cull of animals in Caenlochan Glen, in the east Grampian mountains, is being called for by the Deer Commission for Scotland. It wants to see 4,500 animals culled this year and the same number next winter.

 

The cull is backed by Scottish Natural Heritage which says the Glen is the richest area for mountain plants in the UK and that the future of rare species is threatened by the deers' grazing patterns.

 

But the cull is proving controversial among some estate owners who like to keep deer numbers up to attract paying guests into the area. There's also concern among some gamekeepers about what the proposed culling methods mean for deer welfare.

Edited November 6, 2005 by Frank

[bobt]

I would have thought at say £25 a doe they would have no end of waiting customers to help with the cull?

[invector]

Funny how ecologists have different priorities. A local natural history group asked me to do a deer count in some woods which, at certain times, were full of fallow deer. They had counted the oxslips before and after fencing out the deer, as part of a coppicing programme.

 

The upshot was that they asked me to manage the deer and actually helped me to build high seats from trees felled during the coppicing. Obviously the oxslips were more important than the deer!!

[lurcherboy]

Sounds like all involved will have difficulties agreeing what numbers should be culled there. I can see both points though and wouldn't like to be involved

 

 

 

 

 

LB

[Ferret Master]

Hi,

 

Although I can see both points of view they were talking of herding entire herds of them off the hill with helicopters into small 'killing pens' and when night falls going in with silenced rifles and shooting them point blank. :< :< :< :< :< :< :< :<

 

FM

[Dunkield]

It makes my blood boil just thinking about, on the one hand there are now hundreds of recreational stalkers who can't get/afford reasonable stalking and on the other hand people looking to massacre penned up deer

 

Where I shot at the weekend, they now have more deer present, shoot more deer, and have better quality stags than at any time in the last 10 years, why? because it is managed. properly.

 

If they are so worried about their trees, why don't they buy some bloody fencing??

[Dexon]

It seems the culling could be managed better the following is from the forestry commision regarding fencing

 

The preferred means is by culling which, in the long term, will allow the reduction and ultimately the avoidance of the use of deer fencing. Fencing is now considered undesirable in many situations, for reasons such as landscape, access, cost and difficulty to maintain, as well as the important fact that it can lead to deaths of woodland grouse, one of which (the capercaillie) is already rare and still declining (see below). Forestry Commission Guidance states that fencing should only be used when no other alternative methods are possible (see FA(S) Guidance Note 11: Deer, Natural Regeneration and Fencing). This is particularly crucial within core areas for capercaillie (or black grouse), where fencing should be avoided, as any use of fencing within the current/potential range of capercaillie will directly conflict with the aims of the Species Action Plan.

Edited November 8, 2005 by Dexon

[Frank]

It seems to be a no win situation.

Why cant they, say, charge £10 a head for shoting 5 does each per day, all is welcome who are licenced firearms holders and experienced with stalking ect.

Instead of a mass cull from helicopters ect where im sure, their will be wounded deer !

All those magnificent stags, being treated like vermin, is disgraceful. :<

[kip270]

With regards to the FC on deer fencing It's ********.

I took my DSC level 1 with Ronnie Rose MBE, this man knows his stuff. If you want to know anything about scottish stalking/countryside he and his son really know what they are doing.http://www.eskdalewildlife.com/

The grouse actually fly through the wire or over, it not into it. This is another ploy to be able to carry out mass culls..It's all to do with the ****** sat in government who wouldn't know the difference between a rare flower and a weed!!!!!!(unless thay were smoking it!!!)

 

Ron was there when they shot on glenfeishe estate and has video evidence that they were doing things against deer welfare. He is fighting for the welfare of deer and maintains that true countrymen should be left to do what we have been doing for years, looking after the countryside and not abusing it like all these people sat behind a desk, thinking they know best, because they don't.......

 

Yes some of the stalking is a bit pricey, but you are paying for someone to take you out on the hill, take you to where the deer are and select a beast to shoot..

Would you expect a plumber to come round and fit a bathroom suit for next to nothing, i think not, we are paying for their skills also.....

[Big Dog]

I am shocked to read this initial post from FRANK stating 8,000 head of deer culled

All the fight about fox hunting, conservation and trying to stop shooting sports!! But it OK to slaughter 8,000 deer, what hypocracy.

 

I watch serveral hundred cattle being shoot on TV at the first foot and mouth. The poor animals new what was happening. They could smell the blood of the others. They where shot with rifles. The last view had no herd to hold them in place. Ever time the shooter put up his rifle and pointed it at the cow's head they kept moving their heads away from the line of shot. It was not passive but a delibrate attemp to avoid coming doom. The shooter walked away serveral times for he knew what the cow was trying to avoid the shot and he was sickened to the heart.

 

Animals have feeling too.

 

I agree if it must be done, keep it within good shooting management, make some money of it for the estates and local tourism and spread it over a longer time.

 

I would like to find out what the BASC think of this. I may contact them for their view.

 

Final point - silencers at night??? OK educate me. As they can't use rimfires I don't think that is a strong selling point, certainly not for the deer.

 

Hopefully they won't destroy the antlers

[Devilishdave]

Lets not get all disney Banbie here, deer can be a mennace in some cases and need to be controlled agressively. without a doubt there is a better way to do it other than the Glen Feshie way such as marketing the stalking at a reasonable price people would jump at the chance.

 

The human deaths from Deer RTAs each year is significant.

 

When beasts go to market they know they are going to be burgers later that day and you can see the pannic in them I know this from first hand experiance working in a cattle market.

 

Just remember we are top of the food chain because we eat cooked meat. #Now less of the Anti Vegi Stuff

 

This type of cull will damage our sport further make no mistake.

 

Dave

[tenbears10]

I think dave has a point. Deer need to be controlled in certain areas at certain times. It is the method which is in question here.

 

I can see no reason for using helicopters other than people are too lazy to walk or do not have the skill to stalk properly.

 

Look at Hubertus thread in the sporting pictures section, they seem to be controlling the deer population pretty well and if there population increased too much another few days hunting a season would bring it back into line. That is how to do it in my opinion not spending millions on flying around in ******* heilcopters taking pot shots.

 

This is what happens when accountants and politicians try and manage the countryside.

[Millomite]

There are too many deer in Scotland - Fact

[Dunkield]

Well I am doing my bit, what is everyone elses excuse? :*)

[Axe]

Well I am doing my bit, what is everyone elses excuse?  :*)   

I dont have a camera big enough for the photo's stuart

Edited November 8, 2005 by Axe

[Dunkield]

Leave my mega pixels out of it

 

And of course .22 air rifle is not a deer legal calibre Axe, not even Scotland :*)

[Axe]

Quite right Stuart I'll get there eventually, spoke to the FEO today, interview next couple of weeks, all looking good Had to delay on cabinet sorting out the delivery, but as Paul gave me such a good deal its worth it. Thanks Paul.

Edited November 8, 2005 by Axe

[Ferret Master]

Hi,

 

There seems to be some confusion on the use of helicopters. What they do is herd the deer into a small area and then airlift the stalkers down. I don't think they would shoot them from the helicopters but under Blair anything to do with the countriside seems to go down hill faster than bob-sleigh. :<

 

FM

[Frank]

Ferret Master, they do shoot them from the helicopters mate, i saw it on country file on sunday morning.

I think, if it was done like Hurbertuses way, it would be the best thing. He shows the high seats he was in and only shoots when they stop or slow moving.

By the looks of the bag they managed, id say that in its self is good control.

Charging people a small fee would have them flocking in and the mony could go back into the sport and management of these alpine plants.

 

Big Dog, they are planning to use silencers on Centerfire rifles, probably T8s.

[invector]

Several years ago in New Zealand they poisoned the red deer with treated carrots, THEN shot them later from helicopters using 7.62 NATO.

[Frank]

Invector, where in Northampton are you mate? I use to live in a Village called Hackleton, back in 84, 7 miles from the town center on the Newport Pagnell road.

[Ferret Master]

Hi,

 

Sorry Frank, I watched countryfile but I didn't pick up on them actually shooting them from helicopters. It's still sick anyway. :<

 

FM

[Frank]

No problem FM. It was a quick clip they showed, no doubt did not want to upset the public. Their is a vid made by them culling the deer, i wonder if its possible to get a hold of it?

[rjimmer]

There are too many deer in Scotland - Fact

And they are starving along the outside of fenced off forestry.

 

From what I have heard they have to charge too much for the hind stalking because amateurs need to be supervised, making it inefficient.

Edited November 8, 2005 by rjimmer

[invector]

Frank I live in Northampton and know Hackleton well.