Steel shot is poo!

[MC]

Another example of changing something that ain't broke. Using steel is encouraging change - something which I don't do.

 

I will never use steel shot all the time lead isn't much more expensive, and certainly not on live quarry. And my guns aren't steel proofed.

 

Steel is poo.

 

 

And you obviously can't read,

 

your guns only need steel proof to use HIGH PERFORMANCE STEEL and not the standard loads. The Gunmaker who owns the land where my flight pond is uses steel through an old handmade english side by side and when I question him about it he said that the gun is sound and well made and is perfectly capable of taking it.

 

I am fairly sure you are safe using it through your matched pair of Hollands.

[jamesmarchington]

Ill bite, and I am fully prepared to east humble pie if im wrong, I didnt see your other post.

 

If this goes ahead, I'd be keen to cover it for a feature in Sporting Shooter.

[coupe312]

The lead in fuel came about do to the pathway on which the lead can enter the body. lead was added as a anti pinking agent so wasn't taken out as much as stopped be put it. The new process to produce the anti pinking agent is very hazardous using HF acid but the hazard is less widespread.

 

Lead in a vaporous phase after combusion is very easy to absorb hense why it was remove out of leaded fuel. lead in a vapour phase passs though skin membrains really easy.

Simalar idea with lead water piping but a diffrent reason unless in a acidic enviroment lead water pipe is safe. The dangers come from altering, damaging moving these pipes, due to the heat stresses involved. water wise the lead pipe become quickly redues lead oxide coating which in more resistant to corosion.

 

Anway back to the main issue. we can fight the lead ban as much as we want , but we will only have temporary victory, lead is a red list metal and therefore the goverent will always try to reduce its use.... the reduction or risk no matter how small this risk is.

 

i don't really like the idea of steel but if its the way thing are going evently we will have to comply.

i do think if a lead ban comes in there will be a reduction in the cost of alternative cartridges as more will be made/sold, plus advancement in material may have a alternative more acepted.

 

A ban on lead is like a catalyct conveter on a diesel car, just done to make some people happy but without any significant benifit to others ust additional costs

[chezza1986]

The difference is there is no viable alternative to petrol or diesel, yet there is several alternatives to lead shot.

What about the G-Wizz car that is totally powered on electric??? Doesn't travel that far and is lacking any real power behind it, a bit like some steel shot shells really. Just one example, in all fairness the only one I can remember the name of but an example none the less. There are power cells in experimental cars that run off hydrogen and only produce water as a by-product and solar powered cars so the alternatives are there but can you really see any government with a brain out doing petrol any time soon?? No you couldn't because of the lost revenue would cripple the economy.

I am starting to see that if lead is banned that companies would have to adapt quickly or die in a sense but why have none of the other alternatives been in the spot light ie. tungsten matrix or similar. Yes steel is by far the cheeper option but if supply and demand is going to drive prices down as alot of people are saying why has no one mention these alternatives?? I only said steel shot is poo because it's the one that is being shoved in our face at the moment?? Why is Bismuth not a viable alternative?? Would tungsten and like wise products come down to a more affordable price?? I even here tin is being considered to be reused again??What about copper as i've seen copper coated shot why not use it as shot??

[coupe312]

copper n suitable dose is quiet toxic too.

tungsten is a expensive raw material as it not really a plentiful suppy

[anser2]

Ok al4x your on and if its ok with you James Marchington ( Sporting Shooter ) can cove the results. I will continue this by PM.

[chezza1986]

I have just been informed by a friend of mine that does quite a bit of clay shooting and he told me his usual club and a few others he has been to have banned the use of steel shot due to the increased ricochet. Before any one says " and lead doesn't ricochet " yes it does but no where near as bad as steel as lead deforms when it hits an object as it is a soft metal. Steel is hard which does not deform when it strikes an object which has it own ballistic quality but gives rise to extra ricochet. It also says on the boxes don't shoot at hard surfaces or water due to the increased risk. Surely this must be taken into consideration??

[Evil Elvis]

If this goes ahead, I'd be keen to cover it for a feature in Sporting Shooter.

 

:thumbs: GULP

[MC]

I have just been informed by a friend of mine that does quite a bit of clay shooting and he told me his usual club and a few others he has been to have banned the use of steel shot due to the increased ricochet. Before any one says " and lead doesn't ricochet " yes it does but no where near as bad as steel as lead deforms when it hits an object as it is a soft metal. Steel is hard which does not deform when it strikes an object which has it own ballistic quality but gives rise to extra ricochet. It also says on the boxes don't shoot at hard surfaces or water due to the increased risk. Surely this must be taken into consideration??

 

 

That is rubbish,

 

Yes steel ricochets, as does lead. Clay grounds are banning its use because they don't want to be sued if anything should happen. Yes there is an increased risk, but there is a risk to everything. It is a case of managing that risk.

 

Setting birds so they are shot where there isn't anything behind that could cause a ricochet would be a start. I heard of a skeet range near me who wouldn't allow steel as it would ricochet off the trap houses. I don't shoot that much skeet so I am in no way an expert but I have never shot a trap house in all the rounds I have ever done.

 

Any shot will ricochet off water, my friend who is a keen punt gunner will tell you that you quite often see a secondary set of splashes another 100 or so yards from the initial point of impact.

 

Your post is exactly what is wrong with this whole discussion, everyone "Listens" to their mates down the pub rather than try for themselves.

[chezza1986]

That is rubbish,

 

Yes steel ricochets, as does lead. Clay grounds are banning its use because they don't want to be sued if anything should happen. Yes there is an increased risk, but there is a risk to everything. It is a case of managing that risk.

 

Setting birds so they are shot where there isn't anything behind that could cause a ricochet would be a start. I heard of a skeet range near me who wouldn't allow steel as it would ricochet off the trap houses. I don't shoot that much skeet so I am in no way an expert but I have never shot a trap house in all the rounds I have ever done.

 

Any shot will ricochet off water, my friend who is a keen punt gunner will tell you that you quite often see a secondary set of splashes another 100 or so yards from the initial point of impact.

 

Your post is exactly what is wrong with this whole discussion, everyone "Listens" to their mates down the pub rather than try for themselves.

 

So what part of it is rubbish if you've just agreed with everything I have said?? True they could manage the risk better but accidents will occur. I'm not super shot and i've never hit a trap house myself but people have been known to do it so the risk factor is always going to be there. As for the punt gunner I have no experience with it myself but can easily believe this to be true with any type of shot because of the skimming effect you get with a punt gun but I read that shooting at more of a acute angle will give rise to more ricochets than lead shot.

As for "listening" to my mates and not trying for myself,, ****! If i listened to you and not my friend and turned up to a clay ground using steel shells they don't allow at certain grounds what a wasted trip and my time. Not everyone listens to their friend but maybe read proper articles conducted by people with more experience than themselves to see what it's all about. I don't have the luxury of home loading my own steel shells at a higher velocity than 1400-fps or that none of the people I personally know have the equipment I can borrow to try it out for myself. There is nothing wrong with this discussion at all that's the whole point of a discussion. People will agree with you and others wont. Would this discussion be wrong if everyone agreed with you?? It's good to listen to your mates because they might have something happen to them that might change your mind or solidify what you think already or even tell you something you might never thought would have happen. :thumbs:

[Floating Chamber]

Just read the signs on the claygrounds. 'Please don't use steel shot here' then don't. If no signs, ASK.

Simple.

[George1990]

And you obviously can't read,

 

your guns only need steel proof to use HIGH PERFORMANCE STEEL and not the standard loads. The Gunmaker who owns the land where my flight pond is uses steel through an old handmade english side by side and when I question him about it he said that the gun is sound and well made and is perfectly capable of taking it.

 

I am fairly sure you are safe using it through your matched pair of Hollands.

 

:thumbs:

 

Go and get a cup of Earl Grey and put your feet up. It's obviously been a tiring week for you...

 

(Steel shot is poo by the way)

[chezza1986]

Just read the signs on the claygrounds. 'Please don't use steel shot here' then don't. If no signs, ASK.

Simple.

A simple solution indeed but I only have 2 clay grounds near me now both still allow steel shot I think so it doesn't affect me but I didn't know it was not allowed at some grounds until yesterday. If you didn't know that and you just turned up to a new ground to try out not thinking that steel shot was not allowed to be used it is a wasted trip.

[MC]

:thumbs:

 

Go and get a cup of Earl Grey and put your feet up. It's obviously been a tiring week for you...

 

(Steel shot is poo by the way)

 

 

Sorry,

 

Not quite with you, but if you are asking would I listen to a life long friend who is a H & H trained gunmaker or some hearsay on the internet I know which one I would take notice of.

[chezza1986]

Sorry,

 

Not quite with you, but if you are asking would I listen to a life long friend who is a H & H trained gunmaker or some hearsay on the internet I know which one I would take notice of.

 

Your post is exactly what is wrong with this whole discussion, everyone "Listens" to their mates down the pub rather than try for themselves.

 

You wasn't speaking to him down the pub was you??? Not just hearsay though is it??? We read articles by people with experience like your friend. His opinion is one thing that you happen to agree with. We on the other hand have agreed with other professional opinions. Yes people will put there opinions on forums like pigeon watch, some we take notice of others we just forget about but hey that's the fun of free speech. Don't you think though some people might take your views as just hearsay?? I'm not saying that what you say is a load of rubbish just that I don't totally agree with what you are saying and the acceptance you have displayed about it. I find it a bit defeatist and this helps the antis in their crusade to kill all the fun and joy in this world.

Edited April 28, 2010 by chezza1986

[MC]

You wasn't speaking to him down the pub was you??? Not just hearsay though is it??? We read articles by people with experience like your friend. His opinion is one thing that you happen to agree with. We on the other hand have agreed with other professional opinions. Yes people will put there opinions on forums like pigeon watch, some we take notice of others we just forget about but hey that's the fun of free speech. Don't you think though some people might take your views as just hearsay?? I'm not saying that what you say is a load of rubbish just that I don't totally agree with what you are saying and the acceptance you have displayed about it. I find it a bit defeatist and this helps the antis in their crusade to kill all the fun and joy in this world.

 

 

Have you actually tried steel shot? and by tried I mean several brands and shot sizes and given it a fair trial? I don't believe you would post as you do if you have. Would you go to a solicitor for advice and then ignore what he says?

 

I asked my gunmaker friend who incidentally has only been in the trade for about 45-50 years and his father was before him, about using steel shot through his English Side by Side and he said there was no problem.

 

Another wildfowling friend has been using steel through a Baikal Over and Under for as long as we have had to, again with no ill effects. I have a Beretta Extrema because I didn't have a gun I was happy to take on the marsh so I had to buy one. Getting an up to date Superior steel proofed gun seemed logical.

 

I in no way agree with any more restrictions on lead shot, however I am being real about it and at some point in the future (be that 3 months or 10 years) it will be phased out.

 

I hope BASC can do what they did over the wildfowling restrictions and delay them for a s long as humanly possible.

 

In no way is the ban of the use of lead shot going to end shooting, if wildfowling is anything to go on it will go from strength to strength. I certainly have shot more ducks and geese with steel than I ever did with lead. That may be because I am a better shot or that there are more about but it is a fact.

 

As I have said time and time again steel is not the only non toxic and some of the other alternatives are better than lead

[mudpatten]

Wise words indeed from Chezza1986. A man who, or so his footnote tells us, has killed the princely number of 59 pigeons.

 

Loads of experience there then.

[BlaserF3]

Wise words indeed from Chezza1986. A man who, or so his footnote tells us, has killed the princely number of 59 pigeons.

 

Loads of experience there then.

 

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit you know, but he has killed 58 more pigeons than me though

 

But I've only been shooting one gun or the other for 50 odd years but I have lots of experience though, have you?

[MC]

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit you know, but he has killed 58 more pigeons than me though

 

But I've only been shooting one gun or the other for 50 odd years but I have lots of experience though, have you?

 

 

It is a pity that in all those years of shooting you didn't actually learn something.

[chezza1986]

Ok then ****** it. With the last comment posted i'll give it a try! You're right I'm not the most experienced of shot, never said I was. I am only going on what some people said/wrote and what they were saying was what I thought so it solidified my opinion on steel shot but since you have repeatedly replied on the subject and in your last note said have I tried, and properly tried, steel shot I thought to be fair I do have to give it a go to see if my thoughts are well founded or if I have just got it all wrong. We shall see. What type of commercial cartridges do you recommend to use on pigeon which are quite high flyers, usually around 40-45 yards but sometimes a bit more and how much do they roughly cost?? I would like to say I'd give some home loads a try but don't do self loading.

[BlaserF3]

It is a pity that in all those years of shooting you didn't actually learn something.

 

 

Do you know that I used to think that you were a decent type of person...but I was not a good judge of character though, pity.

[MC]

I would recomend Gamebore Super steel 32gr of 4's. I also use Express Supreme steel in the same load, although some people don't like them. If you read the article in ST this week you will see that they penetrate further than no.6 in lead. And will have a better pattern.

[chezza1986]

Right will give them a go and then report. This might be a week or 2. Easy with the insults on here MC. It's a forum for discussions not insults!

[MC]

Right will give them a go and then report. This might be a week or 2. Easy with the insults on here MC. It's a forum for discussions not insults!

 

 

That comment wasn't meant as an insult and I apologise for any offence caused, however with any alternative you need to be open minded and not dismiss without a fair trial.

[6.5x55SE]

MC Steel First post on here, i think August 09 Robin Scott (sporting gun) done a article stating he would not even put steel shells in his Gun. Trough a good mate i offered to take Mr Scott Goose shooting to show him what Steel could do and for him to do a Article on these, Yep he declined "WHY" I shoot one or two Geese every season and shoot 95% with Steel Factory loaded 1-3 shot and I'm not talking 30-40yrd Geese, and this season i will be try homeloads as i have been reliably informed its far better than factory Steel. Put Steel along with any other type of shot it will "Kill" a lot of talk of Steel being #### is total rubbish and all in the head