Guest cookoff013 Posted April 29, 2010 Report Share Posted April 29, 2010 i tried a hunting cartridge #4 express hunting steel. i found it very slow. the gamebore clay cartridges are faster. but noticably lead was inclreased for the longer clay shots. i`ll be handloading a few to try. just to get the best out of it. i think for a dedicated cartridge for pass shooting geese is tungsten. it has a ballistic advantage, and mimics what lead cartridges do, fires big heavy loads longer distance. the glass is half full and half empty ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted April 29, 2010 Report Share Posted April 29, 2010 one man's Love is another mans hate that is affect of life. But for me it is a hard pill to swallow people stating steel is ####. My one or two Geese a season is in fact several Pinkfeet, flighting Geese nothing tame about them. A m8t of mine does not like the Cartridge's i use, Make-shot size and i don't like his choice but this does not effect our friendship and we both kill Geese consistently at the range's we feel comfortable at and within our ability, just because those that cant or have not got the skill DONT knock those that can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK fowler Posted April 29, 2010 Report Share Posted April 29, 2010 go get um boyd welcome to PW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George1990 Posted April 29, 2010 Report Share Posted April 29, 2010 Lead is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted April 29, 2010 Report Share Posted April 29, 2010 (edited) Dead right, lead is better, and long may we be allowed to use it. That`s exactly what BASC is working towards. But just in case if, as happened with NTS for fowling, the government does`nt listen and does away with it, you`ll be pleasantly surprised to find that steel actually works. Edited April 29, 2010 by mudpatten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted April 29, 2010 Report Share Posted April 29, 2010 (edited) Dead right, lead is better, and long may we be allowed to use it. That`s exactly what BASC is working towards. But just in case if, as happened with NTS for fowling, the government does`nt listen and does away with it, you`ll be pleasantly surprised to find that steel actually works. Certainly does Edited April 29, 2010 by chrispti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted April 29, 2010 Report Share Posted April 29, 2010 Lead is better. Better than what? Steel yes, Hevi shot or TMX then the answer is NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George1990 Posted April 29, 2010 Report Share Posted April 29, 2010 Lead is better than those too as it's cheaper. Not if you're shooting waterfowl though. Well, it is, but one is not allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted April 29, 2010 Report Share Posted April 29, 2010 Lead is better than those too as it's cheaper. Not if you're shooting waterfowl though. Well, it is, but one is not allowed. So by your own reckoning steel is better than lead as that is cheaper? It patterns better and hits as hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George1990 Posted April 29, 2010 Report Share Posted April 29, 2010 Only by going up in shot size, leaving massive holes in your dinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted April 30, 2010 Report Share Posted April 30, 2010 Only by going up in shot size, leaving massive holes in your dinner. Spoken like a true EX SPURT who has extensive experience in using non toxic shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted April 30, 2010 Report Share Posted April 30, 2010 Only by going up in shot size, leaving massive holes in your dinner. well it would if you start shooting f shot sizes at close range. i`ve even seen it with bismuth. if the shot is too close it will destroy the meat. that was only because the pattern didnt open. cookoff013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George1990 Posted April 30, 2010 Report Share Posted April 30, 2010 Spoken like a true EX SPURT who has extensive experience in using non toxic shot. Talking just about steel here. So you're saying larger shot doesn't make larger holes? I've used number 5 shot on pigeon and that left a big enough hole for me. Lets remember that it's not just geese etc we'll be shooting with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted April 30, 2010 Report Share Posted April 30, 2010 But just in case if, as happened with NTS for fowling, the government does`nt listen and does away with it, you`ll be pleasantly surprised to find that steel actually works. +1 if the ban comes to effect many people will find out for themselves steel can actually work. they wont like being proved wrong. but it`ll happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted April 30, 2010 Report Share Posted April 30, 2010 Talking just about steel here. So you're saying larger shot doesn't make larger holes? I've used number 5 shot on pigeon and that left a big enough hole for me. Lets remember that it's not just geese etc we'll be shooting with it. I know that but as so many people are already using 7's in steel and 7.5's in lead for shooting pigeons why can't you carry on using 6's in steel? You are just looking for excuses that aren't really valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George1990 Posted April 30, 2010 Report Share Posted April 30, 2010 You're the one who was so adamantly against using such a small shot on pigeons... I'm honestly not too bothered either way, just saying lead is better and that I won't use steel unless I have to or it becomes economically appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted May 1, 2010 Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 I am against using such small shot for pigeons, as I am for any game or quarry. However I went out shooting pigeons today and I shot 37 birds for 71 shots and used 2 boxes of Express supreme steel 32gr in 4's. The furthest bird was picked up at 46 paces and it was dead in the air. I missed or winged no more or less with either lead or steel, it made no difference. Never did I think I won't shoot that as it is a bit far out for steel, I just shot as I normally would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogone Posted May 1, 2010 Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 Over here in Canada we gad to switch to steel for ducks and geese about 15 years ago. I guided about 40 hunters a year for waterfowl so got a first hand view of the results. There were many more birds flew off after a solid hit. IF recovered (sometimes half a mile) the steel had gone right through like a bullet. More cripples. Now most serious shooters use hevi-shot or bismuth. We still use lesd for grays and grouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted May 2, 2010 Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 Something very similar happened with wildfowling in the UK. The steel shot cartridges in general use some fifteen years ago were considerably inferior to those available today thanks to developments in powders and loading components. An example of this is that an increasing number of fowlers on both sides of the Atlantic, who prefer to use steel shot, are now quite content to use 3" cartridges in place of 3.5", their field performance having improved so greatly that the original need for a big payload of very large shot is much reduced. My fowling club has led the country in the collection of shooting data which clearly shows that the kill to cartridge ratio using steel is now exactly the same as lead. Most importantly, crippling rates with intelligently used steel shot are LESS than with lead. I was`nt going to bring this fact up given the title of the thread, I know many people don`t want to hear it, but sadly it is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted May 4, 2010 Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 I know many people don`t want to hear it, but sadly it is true. Is there any documented evidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted May 4, 2010 Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 Yes I would be interested in this evidence too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted May 5, 2010 Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 (edited) The proof is easy to find. Write to cartridge makers and ask them what their most poplar wildfowling shells are . I can tell you all my wildfowling mates use a hell of a lot more steel for duck shooting than any other non toxic shells. Edited May 5, 2010 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted May 5, 2010 Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 The proof is easy to find. Write to cartridge makers and ask them what their most poplar wildfowling shells are . I can tell you all my wildfowling mates use a hell of a lot more steel for duck shooting than any other non toxic shells. By choice, or, because other non toxic shells are too expensive compared to steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted May 6, 2010 Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 I use steel by choice, it is perfectly capable of doing the job in hand so why spend more than you have to? How many people use performance fuel in their normal road cars? If steel was no good then I would be buying the alternatives. It is not an issue over cost, I only use about 100 shells a year on the shore and prbably the same on my pond and steel is more than enough for that. As I have said to all the doubters, go and stand 50 yards away and let me shoot you with a steel load of 4's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted May 6, 2010 Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 As I have said to all the doubters, go and stand 50 yards away and let me shoot you with a steel load of 4's please wait until the season actually starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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