spence Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 Went off this morning to re-join my old club, left home but returned when I realised I’d not taken my SGC with me. No problem as it’s only 5 minutes away but got me thinking. Do you need to have your certificate with you at all times when out shooting? As with a driving licence, you need one but there’s no requirement to carry it with you when driving. I know it’ll save hassle if stopped and asked to produce it. Can’t see anything in the wording on the cert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slug Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 There's no legal obligation to carry it, but it's good advice to do so as the Police can and will seize if they can't check your details on the PNC, I was talking to an armed officer the other day at a club and he seems to think that Firearms details are soon to be centralised on a common database so all counties have access to each others Certificate holders details, the problem arises when for example your crossing counties and it's out of office hours, the other problem arises if you buy a new gun it can take up to two weeks to show up on the PNC ,your ticket gets stamped when you buy..Thats your proof of entitlement to hold, don't bother with photocopies they will not cut the Mustard with the Plod..Prove it or lose it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripey999 Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 (edited) I had a visit from my FLO a couple of weeks ago and I asked the same question. The answer was that there is no law requiring you to carry it although it would prevent unecessary problems if confronted by a bobby. I was told that I can carry a copy but also told that as long as I had some other photo ID with me, a policeman could check the database against my shotgun serial number and be told within minutes if I was legally alowed to have it in my possession. I tend to keep mine with me just in case a jobs worth PC (who doesn't know the law properly) stops me. Edited May 23, 2010 by stripey999 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 I had a visit from my FLO a couple of weeks ago and I asked the same question. The answer was that there is no law requiring you to carry it although it would prevent unecessary problems if confronted by a bobby. the above was advised to me by my feo and have done so every time(except when putting in for a 1for1 or variation).. al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Militia Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 What about when your certificate goes in for variation, since then you can't really "prove" that those are your guns if you said that photocopies aren't worth jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSS Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 If you get pulled up and you havn't got your tickets to prove the guns are yours, and they're legal, they can and almost always will take the guns off you. They cant access Firearms and Shotgun information from the PNC. Only the firearms licensing unit has that information. If you send off for variation, get your FAC photocopied, and stock up on ammunition beforehand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Militia Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 Yes this is what I wanted to do, make a photocopy but as some have said some police forces might decide that this is not enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSS Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 It probably isn't, in the eyes of the law, what is enough? Its always worth a try, and if the worst comes to the worst, you will lose your guns for a few weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 It's debatable, since photocopies may not be the current status quo, but it's certainly reasonable, and given the waiting times from firearms departments, some leeway is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spence Posted May 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 As I thought. Just try and remember in future, better safe than sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigt1754 Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 If you get pulled up and you havn't got your tickets to prove the guns are yours, and they're legal, they can and almost always will take the guns off you. They cant access Firearms and Shotgun information from the PNC. Only the firearms licensing unit has that information. If you send off for variation, get your FAC photocopied, and stock up on ammunition beforehand Will have to disagree here. I've never had a problem checking make, model and serial number of each gun held via PNC when I have had cause to check on pulling some one over or in the field. The control room operator will tell me when I do a person check if a SGC and/or Firearms cert is held and I can ask for details if I wish. Bigt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 Will have to disagree here. I've never had a problem checking make, model and serial number of each gun held via PNC when I have had cause to check on pulling some one over or in the field. The control room operator will tell me when I do a person check if a SGC and/or Firearms cert is held and I can ask for details if I wish. Bigt Do you check on many people who are shooting etc while in course of your job? Just wondered cos we're in same area.Police cars have driven past me a few times while im getting guns plus decoying equipment out of car and fortunately they dont take any notice.I know its kinda rural round here so you'd expect to see this sort of thing,but just wondered what the official Cambs Police stance was or do you trust your own instinct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigt1754 Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 Do you check on many people who are shooting etc while in course of your job? Just wondered cos we're in same area.Police cars have driven past me a few times while im getting guns plus decoying equipment out of car and fortunately they dont take any notice.I know its kinda rural round here so you'd expect to see this sort of thing,but just wondered what the official Cambs Police stance was or do you trust your own instinct? Not really. Its mainly when some one calls in saying there's a person in a field in camo gear with a gun shooting things. I was on the rural team and gave talks to other departments and call takers on the team and country pursuits to give them a better understanding of what was going on. I've since moved departments, but my mate on the team still gives the talks. I had some really good feedback from various departments, as they had not had any understanding of what went on in the countryside before. The biggest help for me wasn't the person in possession of there SGC or FAC, but permission slips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloke Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 Maybe someone can advise me on this point. I asked my FEO office about this and the lady on the end of the phone (Possibly a secretary) insisted that it is illegal to photocopy a licence, and that I should not do so, let alone try to use one as proof. I don't - I carry the original, but keep a copy for reference in case of loss - but illegal to even copy it - sounds a bit like big brother really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 As a seperate issue you should always photocopy your licence before you send it off anyway. Its far from unusual to get it back with errors like guns missed off or old guns you have disposed of still on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 (edited) one thing no one seems to think of is what happens if you lose your sgc/fac when youre out? if the wrong person finds it they have an instant list of your guns AND your address (in NI anyway). at least with a photocopy you can blank out your address, id rather the cops lift my guns and i get them back the next day by going to the station with my licence than someone break into the house and take them Edited May 24, 2010 by Ozzy Fudd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covlocks Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 A chat with a serving police friend of mine regarding confirms the obvious in that its not illegal to carry a photocopy unless you try to pass it off as on original. However, you can not fool anyone as when you photocopy the words FRAUD appears all over the middle of the copy due to some clever ink color use. You can not buy anything on this copy licence but it can be used to help prove that you are legitimately carrying your guns if the policeman stopping you has a problem verifying your entitlement by radio. Getting your guns back the next day if they are taken by the police is very optimistic indeed, so nothing is lost by carrying a copy. I have reduced the size of mine and laminated it so when it rains it doesnt turn into a useless mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve29 Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 I usually carry my certificate with me when I'm out shooting. I don't find they take up too much room once folded in half & in the leg pocket of my shooting trousers. In the little plastic case with my SGC or FAC I also have the permission slips. That way if I get stopped it is less likely to be a written-off shooting trip (I hope!). Having said that, in the last 20 years of active shooting I have never been stopped yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 I carry photocopies of relevant permission letters and a copy of my shotgun certificate. I have only been approached by the police once, produced the copy's, they did their checks and I was back to shooting in 10 mins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet hunter Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 I am no expert, but what i do is carry photo copies, sgc certificate, shootnig permission etc, in my view it makes sense, and will save you lot of hassle, if the unexpected should arise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJN Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 "However, you can not fool anyone as when you photocopy the words FRAUD appears all over the middle of the copy due to some clever ink color use. " not when I scan mine on my printer it doesn't ! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 "However, you can not fool anyone as when you photocopy the words FRAUD appears all over the middle of the copy due to some clever ink color use. " not when I scan mine on my printer it doesn't ! M. This must work on new licences then as my photocopy doesn't have it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC45 Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 I always carry my cert and proof of insurance. Just saves hassle if I get stopped.. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_T Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 I always carry my SGC and insurance with me. Sometimes I notify the Police of my location too if close to footpaths, cycleways etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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