MoD accepts .223 not up to the job

[JackReady]

Seems even the lads at MoD agree with me, that the .223 is not all that great. B)

 

 

 

 

Royal Marines serving in Afghanistan have become the first British troops to use a powerful new long-range rifle on the front line, the Ministry of Defence has announced.

 

Members of 40 Commando have begun using the Sharpshooter rifle in battles with the Taliban in dangerous Sangin in Helmand province.

 

The new semi-automatic weapon fires a 7.62mm round, larger than the Army's standard issue SA80 A2 assault rifle, and is more accurate over long distances.

 

 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/a...3wE3aTihiDnzFyQ

[Wookie]

It's an addition to, not a replacement for, the L85. Both have their place in a section, the same as the LMG and GPMG have.

[shot shot]

"more than 400 of the guns..."

 

yeh, that'll be plenty

 

as said, supplement, not replacement

[Ozzy Fudd]

just get rid of the 80's and re issue slr's :)

[Vipa]

just get rid of the 80's and re issue slr's :)

 

SLRs were fab, reliable and accurate but too unweildy and difficult to manouvre in confined spaces. They were particularly awkward to use in urban combat situations due to their length.

 

The sa80 was brought in because it is FAR more user friendly in the same situations. It's bullpup design means you don't have to sacrifice barrel length for a shorter more manouverable weapon. It was bloomin un-reliable in the early days and jams were frequent and frustrating but all new technology has teething problems and the issues were soon ironed out.

 

Engagements tend to be won in theatre with firepower, not knock down power otherwise our troops would all be carrying Barretts! pound for pound a soldier can carry far more 5.56 rounds than 7.62, in close quarter situations 5.56 are just as effective and are actually quite handy out to 600mtrs if the shooter is up to it.

 

7.62 ADDS another tool to the box that's all. This is in no way anyone recognising that 5.56 isn't up to it... it really is up to it! The SA80s eventual replacement will probably still use 5.56 due to the significant additional ammo that can be carried over heavier hitting rounds.

[shot shot]

SLRs were fab, reliable and accurate but too unweildy and difficult to manouvre in confined spaces. They were particularly awkward to use in urban combat situations due to their length.

 

The sa80 was brought in because it is FAR more user friendly in the same situations. It's bullpup design means you don't have to sacrifice barrel length for a shorter more manouverable weapon. It was bloomin un-reliable in the early days and jams were frequent and frustrating but all new technology has teething problems and the issues were soon ironed out.

 

Engagements tend to be won in theatre with firepower, not knock down power otherwise our troops would all be carrying Barretts! pound for pound a soldier can carry far more 5.56 rounds than 7.62, in close quarter situations 5.56 are just as effective and are actually quite handy out to 600mtrs if the shooter is up to it.

 

7.62 ADDS another tool to the box that's all. This is in no way anyone recognising that 5.56 isn't up to it... it really is up to it! The SA80s eventual replacement will probably still use 5.56 due to the significant additional ammo that can be carried over heavier hitting rounds.

and what about those of us who shoot lefty?

[Westcountryman]

Old news! It's to engage longer range targets with precision fire. Not for up close and personal work. They have been doing this for years, with the LSW in the sharpshooter role, as well as some older L96's. The sharpshooters rifle is designed for the job rather than making doing with something which is not perfect for the role.

 

5.56 For riflemen will be around for a while longer. For anyone that thinks the 5.56 is not upto the job, fancy being shot with one??

Edited June 7, 2010 by Westcountryman

[Vipa]

and what about those of us who shoot lefty?

 

 

I'll give you that one! Just what I know from personal experience although I will add, not in a combat situation, only training.... the world was a peaceful(ish) place when I were a lad!!!

[stripey999]

When we were told we were to be issued with L85s we were sceptical because the SLR with 7.62 was a hard hitting weapon and had good long range. However, after it came into service we all accepted that 5.56 was better for the role that we now work in (shorter range firefights) and is actually more forgiving to the average shooter who struggled with the weight and kick of the longer heavier SLR.

 

This new weapon is, as has already been said, an additional tool for longer targets and will not replace the NATO standard 5.56 round. As much as I liked the SLR at the time, I am glad that we use the L85 and I think most of my collegues that remember both weapon systems will agree with me.

[Zapp]

and what about those of us who shoot lefty?

 

Learn to shoot from the proper shoulder or say goodbye to your teeth

 

ZB

[Ozzy Fudd]

SLRs were fab, reliable and accurate but too unweildy and difficult to manouvre in confined spaces. They were particularly awkward to use in urban combat situations due to their length.

 

The sa80 was brought in because it is FAR more user friendly in the same situations. It's bullpup design means you don't have to sacrifice barrel length for a shorter more manouverable weapon. It was bloomin un-reliable in the early days and jams were frequent and frustrating but all new technology has teething problems and the issues were soon ironed out.

 

Engagements tend to be won in theatre with firepower, not knock down power otherwise our troops would all be carrying Barretts! pound for pound a soldier can carry far more 5.56 rounds than 7.62, in close quarter situations 5.56 are just as effective and are actually quite handy out to 600mtrs if the shooter is up to it.

 

7.62 ADDS another tool to the box that's all. This is in no way anyone recognising that 5.56 isn't up to it... it really is up to it! The SA80s eventual replacement will probably still use 5.56 due to the significant additional ammo that can be carried over heavier hitting rounds.

 

i wasnt really having a go at the round, more about the weapon, i can still remember being handed a tube of superglue and an elastic band whilst on excercise with the cadets years ago incase i broke something on the 80

[Bluebarrels]

i wasnt really having a go at the round, more about the weapon, i can still remember being handed a tube of superglue and an elastic band whilst on excercise with the cadets years ago incase i broke something on the 80

 

Thats the old SA80 mate,since HK did the upgrade to the A2 its spot on,accurate,reliable what more do you need Its a good all round rifle, thats fit for purpose BB

[Vipa]

i wasnt really having a go at the round, more about the weapon, i can still remember being handed a tube of superglue and an elastic band whilst on excercise with the cadets years ago incase i broke something on the 80

 

Yep.... That's similar to my first encounter with them too

[Beardo]

i believe i was the very first cadet to break one (our school was the first to be issued with them 1986 as i recall), i put the sling together incorrectly and it fell off my back onto a concrete step. it split the magazine housing from top to bottom.

[o.z]

They should Just issue more machine guns to patrols, 9/10 times they just use suppressive fire to keep the Taliban heads down until artillery/motors or air support arrives. Let the troops choose what they want to lug around the desert!

[Vipa]

i believe i was the very first cadet to break one (our school was the first to be issued with them 1986 as i recall), i put the sling together incorrectly and it fell off my back onto a concrete step. it split the magazine housing from top to bottom.

 

 

Can you imagine the look on the Taliban's faces if they could see that!!!

[hawkeye]

What about the 4.6X30 round then my mate picked some of these empty cases up while on the range at Catterick Garrison and was told by the range officer they were the new round that the forces were using for urban warfare as they could carry a lot more than the 5.56...

They were on the range where the buildings had the roofs taken off so as not to offend certain people :)

[chrispti]

Royal Marines have become the first British troops to use a powerful new long-range rifle in fight against Taliban

 

And then they illustrate the article with a picture of a man from 2 para

[covlocks]

I loved the SLR for accuracy and punch. If someone was hiding behind a wall a few well placed shots punched a hole straight through.

 

It was a heavy lump - used to strap two magazine together and that made up a good wack of weight, but there again it was being carried by fit people who didn't worry about the weight so much. Nowadays carrying my shotties over the fields does me in.

[Beretta28g]

M16 is far better i would think

[chrispti]

M16 is far better i would think

 

Why

 

Its still 5.56.......

[Paddy Galore!]

Why

 

Its still 5.56.......

 

 

 

and longer, about 9". not ideal for upclose and personal.

[Beretta28g]

I heard it had a higher rate of fire.

[Paddy Galore!]

I heard it had a higher rate of fire.

It seems they both have the same, 700rpm, same mag capacity too, 30rnds. the M16 is just over a metre long. are you thinking of the M4? 700-1000rpm. Also a lot shorter and lighter. The M16A2 was a big old fat boy.

[PaulABF]

i believe i was the very first cadet to break one (our school was the first to be issued with them 1986 as i recall), i put the sling together incorrectly and it fell off my back onto a concrete step. it split the magazine housing from top to bottom.

 

Considering that the L85A1 had only just been issued to a very few infantry battalions in the regular army in 1986, and some corps type units didn't get them issued until 1993, I find it amazing that cadets were issued with them at that time.