Compulsory lessons before granting SGC ?

[Bloke]

I was at my local shooting ground this morning and they were up in arms that (apparently !) a local guy applying for a new SGC was told by the FEO (Lincolnshire) that he would even not be considered for an SGC without proof that he had some shooting lessons/safety tuition!

 

Is this just another of the urban myths springing up since Cumbria, or has anyone else heard of this?

[shootreview]

My local grounds old instructor used to get contacted by police for his take and proof that aplicants had taken lessons.

[HDAV]

I was at my local shooting ground this morning and they were up in arms that (apparently !) a local guy applying for a new SGC was told by the FEO (Lincolnshire) that he would even not be considered for an SGC without proof that he had some shooting lessons/safety tuition!

 

Is this just another of the urban myths springing up since Cumbria, or has anyone else heard of this?

Nope but doesn't surprise me however you must be seen as unusual for applying for a SGC if you have 0 experience (having had a lesson or gone with a friend would be most peoples introduction just applying cause you want one could be seen as odd). I know a few people with certs and no guns and a few who i told to apply a while ago ( one being a friend who's father in law must have £50k+ worth guns which when he dies will have to go to plod...) who will face more hoops to jump through if they decide too. I think all forces will fine toothing all applications and probably reject as many as they can before they get submitted.

Edited July 1, 2010 by HDAV

[4eyes]

Seems only fair to me. Would you give a gun and ammo to someone who has never handled a gun, without any instruction? I would not, not without atleast a good talking to about do's/donts and me showing them too.

 

I was asked by FEO at application but had been clay shooting under instuction for a while. Granted this was with friends, but at least I had 'some' experience.

[shootreview]

I let mine go as we had a new baby (Forgot) and soon to re-apply but wish i had just re-newed now. I never owned my own gun but could borrow one any time on 72hr loan from local shop. I just hope there wont be a problem when i renew.

[the running man]

I was at my local shooting ground this morning and they were up in arms that (apparently !) a local guy applying for a new SGC was told by the FEO (Lincolnshire) that he would even not be considered for an SGC without proof that he had some shooting lessons/safety tuition!

 

Is this just another of the urban myths springing up since Cumbria, or has anyone else heard of this?

I can't really see how anyone could have a problem with it, ought to have the ,same for vermin shooters.it would be a good way of weeding out people who don't fit the bill,either u know dodgey or just don't have any aptitude for it. I think it can only be good for the whole shooting spectrum.

[J@mes]

Think if I was him I'd be joining BASC and asking them to get on to it. Since when has the law said that you need to have training to have a shotgun? As far as I am aware, you are still entitled to own one as long as you meet the health, legal and security criteria?

 

I bet more accidents happen with people who have been shooting for years and get lazy, compared to new starters to shooting sports!

Edited July 1, 2010 by J@mes

[alexr]

I was asked about experience when I applied and the lessons that I had had were also taken into account.

[Dempy]

I think it is a good idea, I know there are some who would disagree but,,,,

 

I want to see people taking an interest in country life and more people taking up shooting, but it suprises me how many we have had turn up on our sold driven days with all the gear but no idea.

 

We have a firm rule, if you are bringing a novice gun it is fine, but you need to inform us of the fact and either have somebody stand with him or we will apoint somebody to stand and coach.

 

With the other guns and all those beaters and people picking you just cant take chances!

 

Safety is rule number 1 and I think there would be no harm in courses being run on safe gun handling before a sgc or fac is ever granted.

 

Actually I might set up a course??? ££££

Edited July 1, 2010 by Dempy

[dorianbuilders]

I think its a great idea, after all you can do a lot of damage with a shotgun! What harm would a couple of lessons do? It can only lead to better safer gun owners in my opinion!?

[andy_s]

although i'm no expert having only had sgc for around a year now, i'm from north lincolnshire aswell, about 15 miles from you in scotter and i didn't have to have an instruction or experience before i was granted mine. i was just told that i was entitled to own a shotgun and it was up to them to prove i shouldn't have one rather than me prove i should. fac being the other way around.

[J@mes]

IMO it will just lead to even more hoops to jump through. And where would it stop? Will you have a license like a car license whereby you will have categories for what quarry you can and can't shoot?

 

Clays?

Birds?

Tree based vermin

Ground based vermin with floppy ears and big feet

Ground based vermin with bushy tails and sharp teeth

 

Will I need a category so I can go in a hide with someone, or so I can walk along with my gun around the edge of a field?

 

Whilst I think it is a good idea that everyone should know about safety, I fear it will just lead to further restrictions on ownership and use of sporting weapons.

[mossy835]

you hear all shorts of things at the moment , we will just have to wait and see,

[al4x]

Actually I might set up a course??? ££££

 

 

funnily enough one large shooting organisation starting with a B already runs one I believe

 

Though on a serious note being asked for experience isn't that bad and i'd guess most people had used a shotgun before applying, I know I'd used one a fair bit on clays and beaters days etc so guess that was all my FEO needed to know I wasn't a complete novice. Thats about 18 years ago so nothing has really changed

[the running man]

Mossy is right,the time for debate is not yet here.

[HDAV]

At my application i was asked what intended to do with the gun so I explained i had been for a lesson at a local ground and intended to go back, while you have a right to own a shotgun they also have the final say otherwise its off to court.... I have been in a shop when a chap walked in, guy in shop asked if he could help, chap said "I want an air rifle" shopkeep "what for?", chap"paper targets they say if i go to this target club regular for 6 months i can get a proper rifle, so just something cheap" shopkeep, "i'm not sure thats right", chap "well thats what they told me".... Now based on this guys attitude and demeanour, I wouldn't want him to have the air gun!

 

There will be more restrictions if training/handling is one of the requirements so be it, I am sure many people felt the same about cabinets! apart from heirlooms i can see no reason why anyone would apply with no experience lessons at clays, on vermin with friends etc is fine

 

Your car analogy sounds just like current FAC rules to me!

Edited July 1, 2010 by HDAV

[mossy835]

I think its a great idea, after all you can do a lot of damage with a shotgun! What harm would a couple of lessons do? It can only lead to better safer gun owners in my opinion!?

 

 

so buy having lessons there will be no one going mad, like mr bird,have all the lessons you like dont see it will help a lot.

[Bloke]

I agree that a level of competence is good and, as always, safety must be first, but who gives the training? Are they safe? who licences them? Otherwise, there will be a lively market in printed "competence" or "Safety" certificates that mean nothing. If you base this in clay grounds, well, in my short experience I have seen some shocking examples of safety training (As well as some excellent ones), and a wide variation in shooting/teaching styles, so there would need to be some sort of monitoring or standardisation of competence - another licence to print money. Also, in some areas that would mean a a significant travel expense on top of all the others, and as others have said - lessons in what? Crows/Pigeons/other vermin/clays/etc/etc, or would these all be separate (expensive) lessons?

 

At my SGC interview I was completely open and told the FEO i had already had half-a - dozen lessons, he said that was bound to count in my favour. I don't disagree with the spirit of this - I am just worried that if it becomes compulsory, it could create another beaurocratic nightmare.

[Dempy]

so buy having lessons there will be no one going mad, like mr bird,have all the lessons you like dont see it will help a lot.

 

No, but a few lessons will help to prevent somebody walking around other people with a closed loaded gun.

 

I know I will be teaching my son gun saftey before he ever handles a gun, it is to late to say "you should of unloaded it" when somebody is dead.

[discreet hunter]

goood idea

[shade695]

our shooting ground advised me that half a dozen lessons would be suffficeint to allow me to shoot on their ground under supervision and to send for my shogun cert after a couple of lessons to assure myself that I would like clay shooting for starters, well I enjoyed the lessons and the level of instruction I received to the point that only at the beginning of the week I received my licence, I would endorse that it was a practical way for myself to get into this sport on all areas from safety to stance to actually shooting a clay! and as we all know once you break that clay there's no turning back

so personally I think lessons pre licence is a good option before an aggressive option is maybe found.

[David BASC]

Hi all,

 

There is nothing wrong , in my view, if you want to take on some training to get better at shooting or to gain experience in another form of shooting. Go for it! But as to having to pass a test before you can shoot, thats another matter.

 

I can assure you that in 15 years of handeling shooting insurance clainms, I cannot think of any claims that have been caused by a novice shooter.

 

There is nothing in the Firearms Act that says you must have training before you are granted and SGC or FAC for that matter, not is there anything in the Home Office guidance, or the ACPO best practice. However ,I think the HO / ACPO guidance does say that training can be insisted to an applicant of an FAC IF the alternative would be to refuse to grant

 

If your FEO starts saying there is or being damn awkward get onto BASC if you are a member, or which ever shooting association you are a member of, give them the full details of exactly what the FEO said, their name and contact number and let your association do the rest.

 

David

[Bloke]

Hi all,

 

There is nothing wrong , in my view, if you want to take on some training to get better at shooting or to gain experience in another form of shooting. Go for it! But as to having to pass a test before you can shoot, thats another matter.

 

I can assure you that in 15 years of handeling shooting insurance clainms, I cannot think of any claims that have been caused by a novice shooter.

 

There is nothing in the Firearms Act that says you must have training before you are granted and SGC or FAC for that matter, not is there anything in the Home Office guidance, or the ACPO best practice. However ,I think the HO / ACPO guidance does say that training can be insisted to an applicant of an FAC IF the alternative would be to refuse to grant

 

If your FEO starts saying there is or being damn awkward get onto BASC if you are a member, or which ever shooting association you are a member of, give them the full details of exactly what the FEO said, their name and contact number and let your association do the rest.

 

David

 

 

Perfect answer, I will pass this on next time I am there, thanks.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Bloke

[fortune82]

Good idea as far as I can see.

[Piebob]

Good idea for what? What would it achieve? Think this through lads!

 

UK already has one of the highest shotgun safety records in the world. What other benefits do you believe would come of going down this route? I think it's daft.