pavman Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 [I think the point being made is that while it's considered to hunt Foxes is barbaric it's OK for our Muslim friends to conduct their religious acts of Slaughter . You have hit the nail on the head, its not about fox hunting is it, its not about animal welfare, I am willing to bet that most of the folk who campaign to stop hunting have never whitened the destruction or suffered loss as a result of a fox killing spree, If they only killed to eat they would probably be tolerated but they kill every last chick in the koop or poult in the pen and have to be controlled. We have a big problem with TB and Badgers are the prime carriers of it, a cull is being lined up yet on radio 2 a few days back you will still have tw*ts saying that’s cruel, never mind the, fact that they infect cattle! that we eat Ye gods the mind boggles. Our liberty is under threat by a mindless minority with big mouths and small brains called Antis, come to think of it, it’s the same liberty under threat by our halhal practicing influx, and if its not pc to pick on them why is it ok to target us, Many years ago I used to work in a food canning factory for a few years as a mekky fitter, the hygiene standards where higher in the pet food section than in the human section, when I asked about this I was told if someone gets sick no one will notice if a dog gets sick on our food there will be an outcry. The world has gone mad! stop it I want to get off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted December 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 I watched a documentary about a small slaughter house up north a few months ago. Aswell as conventional slaughtering they did halal. The thing that struck me was the respect shown by the halal slaughterman compared to the normal one. The halal chap had a huge very broad knife that was sharpened between each animal and to check it was sharp and had no marks on the blade he ran it along his thumb nail. The cow walked into a frame and a cradle lifted up the head exposing its throat. In one move the head was almost cut off and the blood flew out of the beast. The animal was dead very quickly and I don't believe it would have known much about the whole thing. The area was washed down between each slaughter. The conventional slaughters were a bit of a laugh for the blokes involved and there was no respect at all. I dont have a problem with it as long as it is done to this standard. Old Rooster, Would you have a problem with it fox hunting had not been banned and do you think we should still be allowed to badger and bear bait, cock fight and hare coarse as they were traditional british activities in times gone by? Or is it just a race thing? Harry Interesting points Harry in what has turned out to be a lively and IMHO very valid debate. I would ask you to consider from which viewpoint the TV programme was being presented, as we all know how slanted documentaries can be. As far as badger, bear baiting and cock fighting are concerned they don't permit the animal any chance of survival and as such could hardly be considered "sporting" none of the species are considered pests. I don't personally have too much of a problem with hare coursing if done sportingly but do take your point about reform and levels of cruelty. You'll probably struggle to find many bears in our woodlands these days anyway. Your accusation of racism is a little out of order, you are entitled to your opinion as we still have freedom of speech, well perhaps some of us do, as long as we tow the politically acceptable line. I'm very much against non-indigenous people of any race, colour or creed taking cynical advantage of our lenient society. I don't want to bleat on but we welcome all and sundry to come in with no value to our society, often disease ridden and penniless they immediately get looked after, in many cases far better than poor old pensioners that have been contributing to OUR society and living respectably all their lives. I don't want to see "diversity"; it's a spineless cop out from a government with no ability to protect our countries integrity. It doesn't work, it only leads to the formation of ghettos and areas where ethnic minority groups gang together and demand the right to practice their own way of life with no intention of integrating into our culture. We already have a rich culture in this country which is being diluted daily with no advantage to us, the British public. Take a look at the DVD available for people wanting to do the theory test for the UK driving license, the test is available in about 20 foreign languages !!!. I'm sorry but if you want a UK driving license you take the test in ENGLISH. It typifies the appease everybody attitude which pis*ses so many of us off. Why can a foreigner come into this country, get housed, get a DHSS pay out to go and buy furnishings, a car and other items I've had to strive to buy ?. I'm not talking about brain surgeons; it's gangs of Eastern European building workers now that so many extra countries have joined the EU. How much have we got to keep stumping up to support groups of immigrants who take with one hand and demand rights to live as they see fit with no thought for our traditions on the other. Have a go at applying to live in Canada, Australia, New Zealand or any other civilised country and you'll find it a whole different story. You have to be healthy, able to contribute some skill or value to their society, be able to support yourself financially and if successful behave in a reasonable manner once you've emigrated. My son has just had to fight tooth and nail to get on a plumbing course, he's up against "ethnic minority" kids who are being put forward for places to get them off the streets. They have no intention of learning anything but happily take the £30 a week handout for just turning up. The other benefit of getting them in is they disappear from the unemployment statistics, along with thousands in universities taking pointless courses that will never enable them to do worthwhile jobs. We need to seriously WAKE UP and stop letting this apathetic, spineless government allow the country to be dragged down. Still at least we aren't going to see increased taxation to pay for the 1 billion pound per year reduction in the EU rebate ****** away so lightly by Mr. B. Liar in an attempt to see his presidency of the EU unblemished. Well not until the next change of heart. Remember his firm assurance before the last election that the rebate was not negotiable. Must dash, final preparations to make for tonight’s pagan rituals where we all dance naked round the fire biting the heads off chickens. Please don't tell anyone though as we'd all end up getting arrested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BountyHunter Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 And I though "War and Peace" was long... Thank goodness I found this forum, I was starting to think that I was alone. I don't hate any creed or colour just get upset when I am not allowed to be British (well Cornish really but I'll side with you chaps for the sake f this debate ) BH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Must dash, final preparations to make for tonight’s pagan rituals where we all dance naked round the fire biting the heads off chickens. old rooster My hat is off, and count me in when you form government, But what choice do we have, and who will support country ways and field sports come the glorious election? They are all a spineless bunch that panders to popular opinion, as opposed to doing the right thing UNTIL YOU MENTION RELIGION, Gents we have no choice and must become a minority extreme religion, and except all the benefit of being such a minority, like government funding and lotto hand outs, Anyone who messes with us and our ways, will be guilty of persecution of a persons rights and beliefs, which is not PC! Sorted pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted December 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 And I though "War and Peace" was long... Sorry BH, just got rambling off on one I guess. Pretty pointless as nobody in authority gives a toss about what the real people want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddytat Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Ive witnessed halal killing and the normal way and the halal way is much more humane. The animal isnt panicked, lead quietly and calmly,,not infront of other animals and just has its neck slit with a extremely sharp silver knife. Its dead within seconds. Im sure I dont have to get into the barbaric way the traditional british slaughter house works. Its far far worse. Oh, and its not only muslims who eat halal meats..the Jewish eat Kosha meats which have to be killed in the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenbears10 Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 I take it no one saw Jamie Oliver on TV a few weeks ago in Italy when he killed the lamb in the field by bleeding it? This is not a muslim against christian debate. Nor has Halal slaughter got anything to do with fox hunting. We all know that the hunt ban had little to do with animal welfare. How many muslim hunt sabs have any of you seen? It is racist to talk about a whole group of people on the basis of their religion or skin colour just like if you refer to every white male as Chav scum, it's just not true. Religous tolorance has been practiced in this country for hundreds of years guys get with the programme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning GTS Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 About imigration, going back a few years maybe Hitler should have taken a leaf out of the Muslims Book. The Nazis instead of an all out invation should have come over in One`s and Two`s brought up a few corner shops. Brought up whole areas of housing in our Cities, taken over all the taxi ranks. Then after a few years got the local school to teach German, then start to vote in a few MP`s. I recon if they had done this by now the invation would have been complete with out a shot being fired. And we now would have been speaking German. So look out in about another 50 years!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Religous tolorance has been practiced in this country for hundreds of years guys get with the programme. Tenbears Tolerance is not a word that the antis understand, if it was then our ways would not be under the spotlight on such an uneven playing field, if the issue was animal welfare then all practice deemed cruel to animals weather religious or sporting would be ridiculed with equal vigour or tolerated with equal indifference, and that is just not the case Give it a religious label and its deemed acceptable to many, a sharp silver knife or a bullet from a rimfire surely its all the same? pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenbears10 Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 You have a point Pavman I'm just trying to say that there are lots of stupid things going on in this country and it's got nowt to do with religon. There was a childminder with 20 years experience on TV last night who had 2 council workers round to her nursery one day when she noticed a child hitting one of the smaller kids with a big lego block. She took the kid and put it on a chair away from the other kids and told it firmly not to do that again. Why was she on TV you ask? Because the council is pressing charges for common assault against the childminder on the evidence of the 2 council workers who witnessed the 'incident'. Neither of the parents involved have any complaint and in fact their kids spend more time at the nursery since the incident occured. Now that is screwed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkBoy Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 About imigration, going back a few years maybe Hitler should have taken a leaf out of the Muslims Book. The Nazis instead of an all out invation should have come over in One`s and Two`s brought up a few corner shops. Brought up whole areas of housing in our Cities, taken over all the taxi ranks. Then after a few years got the local school to teach German, then start to vote in a few MP`s. I recon if they had done this by now the invation would have been complete with out a shot being fired. And we now would have been speaking German. So look out in about another 50 years!!!! Don't forget though that Mr. A Hitler banned foxhunting in Germany in the 1930's......Another veggie do-gooder(?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted December 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Don't forget though that Mr. A Hitler banned foxhunting in Germany in the 1930's......Another veggie do-gooder(?) Might have been a veggie do gooder but he wasn't averse to spilling a bit of blood. Before the lefties start off again I'm not condoning what he and his all too willing cronies did. Think of the whole situation from a slightly different perspective if you will. Some of you guys are quite young and have never seen this country at its best. I'm 50 now and for the past 34 years have been diligently beavering away, paying great wads of direct and latterly indirect tax in the hope that when I retire (if I ever reach that age, whatever it might be) that I'll have a pension and be able to see out my days in relative comfort. With things going in the present direction there won't be any state pensions in a very few years, we've all been fobbed off with the notion that we've been prospering under labour, the truth is that the "prosperity" has been at the expense of massive borrowing. Going off topic a bit now but bear with me.... The influx of swathes of immigrants is having an incalculable effect on the financial burden the decreasing number of working people have to face. The country has slipped from being one of the worlds greatest producers to one that relies heavily on service industries. The unpalatable truth is that if nothing saleable is produced and no profits are made we are up the proverbial creek. Its bad enough that we have to face that anyway, due to massively ineffective fiscal control but to add insult to injury the government has no control whatsover over illegal immigration and repatriation of failed asylum seekers. We are told that we need the skills these people bring, that in itself is a huge indictment of the governments inability to offer meaningful further education to our own youths. There are plenty of arty farty options available but they don't lead to any eventual profitability, they just keep loads of people off the unemployment lists short term. I personally don't want that state of affairs to continue unchecked and although not a betting man would put a wager on the vast majority of mature English people feeling the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BountyHunter Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 (edited) Sorry BH, just got rambling off on one I guess. Pretty pointless as nobody in authority gives a toss about what the real people want. No worries mate, 'twas said with tounge in cheek. On with the debate.. If I may, I don't think there is any race or anything else issue going on here. In my humble view it is all about the fact that in this country we are no longer able to do some things that we hold dear, this whole Christmas offending minorities thing is typical. We are forced to accept other peoples points of view whilst nobody listens to ours. If you must make this a race issue then let me ask, when was the last time you heard anybody stand up for a white, straight male? I have just come back from making a cup of tea and think that I have come up with a good analogy: Lets replace good old Blighty with this forum and the different cultures with users... Now, the forum goes along happily picking up users and as long as those users continue to post in a thoughtful manner and obey the rules things run along just fine - We all add to the flavour of the site. Then at one point, you get some complete muppets signing on and causing trouble with insulting posts and rude comments. Instead of putting the troublemakers in their place and or banning them the moderators say "now chaps we must respect their right to free speech etc". What happens? - The forum becomes unusable and people want to leave in droves. Sounds familiar? BH Edited December 20, 2005 by BountyHunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkBoy Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Old Rooster...... I couldn't agree with you more, though I don't have quite as many miles on the clock as you.... And just to throw more fat on the fire; would most of us rally to the flag with quite so much enthusiasm as our Grand fathers and Great Grandfathers did back in '14 and '39/40...? Sadly I don't think so....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 (edited) It is racist to talk about a whole group of people on the basis of their religion or skin colour see what i mean Religous tolorance has been practiced in this country for hundreds of years guys get with the programme. and only a fool cant see its wareing thin. Edited December 20, 2005 by markbivvy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Ive witnessed halal killing and the normal way and the halal way is much more humane. The animal isnt panicked, lead quietly and calmly,,not infront of other animals and just has its neck slit with a extremely sharp silver knife. Its dead within seconds. Im sure I dont have to get into the barbaric way the traditional british slaughter house works. Its far far worse. Oh, and its not only muslims who eat halal meats..the Jewish eat Kosha meats which have to be killed in the same way. Puds I'm sure a British Slaughter house could put on an Equilvilent Humane display If it were being watched. Don't kid yourself .Where meat is mass produced corners are cut and Halal is just as barbaric to meet demand ................................................................................ ...................................... On a further note The whole point is our traditions remember being subdued on the basis of Animal Cruelty ............Whilst others are appeased I think it's fair to say that the VIEWS of lads on here who live in inner cities and large Towns where racial integration is practiced and tolerated will always differ from those who live in rural areas . I for one envy you Ive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 The slaughterhouse i work in is working at under half capacity,we slaughter 1400 pigs a day.The animals are lead into a machine which anethatizes them using co2 when they exit this machine they are completeley anethatized.Within 20 seconds they are stuck 18 seconds later they are dead.In between each pig you have to wash and sterilize your knife.These knives are sharp enough to shave with.I hold my slaughtermans liscence myself which means if i inflict cruelty or unnessersary pain on a animal i can be prosecuted.We have a vet on site all the time along with meat inspecters.In my view these methods are the most humane way of taking a animals life,not restraining it and cutting its throat while it is aware of what is going on around it.Put yourself it it's place for a moment.How would you rather die Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 When I was at school, I was sent to Ireland every year for the six week summer holidays. One of the many tasks I had to carry out on the farm, was to hold the zinc lined bucket to catch the blood of the pig that the family raised, hog tied, and slaughtered. I have got nothing against Jews and Muslims killing their meat ritually and the tenuous connection with the hunting ban is laughable. This is just sniping at others who have been allowed to keep their traditions while ours are being eroded. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 I think tenbears and LB's posts summed up my opinion on this. It is known that the ban on hunting had nothing to do with animal welfare. Don't erode potential bridges and try and alientate us from other sections of society. I am sure there are many people of a variety of religions who enjoy country sports, let them defend their own corner, while we defend ours. I don't know if any of you ever heard of Pastor Martin Niemoller. He spoke out against Hitler and paid for it by spending eight and a half years in a Nazi concentration camp. First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out--because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out--because I was not a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out--because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me-- and there was no one left to speak out for me. The anti's are not very numerous, their is no big secret to how they work, they devote their attentions and funds in political priority with the ones they think they have the most chance of changing at the top. For example when after hunting their fingers in other pies (fishing and shooting) were only small. I am sure they have campaigns against halal and kosher killing although they currently will be not be on full power, they just have other priorities which they think they have greater chances of pulling off in the short-medium term. Long term they want everything banned, including eating meat at all, make no mistake, potentially nothing will be safe. That is why it is up to us to make the case for shooting stronger, and easier for us to defend from the erosions of the future. Time is on our side, but is willpower? Why can't some of the emotions and energy in this thread be channeled for more positive use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BountyHunter Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 This is just sniping at others who have been allowed to keep their traditions while ours are being eroded. But it isn't isolated is it? Every day that goes by sees another part of our culture eroded and having a moan about it doesn't hurt - admitably it doesn't help but it certainly makes some people feel better. It is all very well being tolerant when it suits but we are all guilty of intolerance otherwise mimic wouldn't have got banned would he? After all he was only expressing his opinion to which he is entitled.. (sorry to drag you into it ^mimic^ but you suit my case in this instance) BH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 This is just sniping at others who have been allowed to keep their traditions while ours are being eroded. But it isn't isolated is it? Every day that goes by sees another part of our culture eroded and having a moan about it doesn't hurt - admitably it doesn't help but it certainly makes some people feel better. It is all very well being tolerant when it suits but we are all guilty of intolerance otherwise mimic wouldn't have got banned would he? After all he was only expressing his opinion to which he is entitled.. (sorry to drag you into it ^mimic^ but you suit my case in this instance) BH I agree, you are dead right BH, and I am probably the biggest offender on this forum. But, it makes me, you and others feel better, but that doesn't make it right. For example. I was driving home Dunganick today after a couple of days pigeon chasing. I told him I once stopped behind a car at some traffic lights that wasnt indicating for any turns. I got out of my Landie, tapped on the window and told the driver his indicators weren't working. He said they were and i replied why dont you ****** use them ******!!!! It served no purpose other than making me feel better. I think I may be maturing, god I feel old, going to have a beer now and maybe a lie down. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackthorn Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 you go through life trying to be courteous, then people **** you off, with no regards for others, LB you ain't getting old . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 you go through life trying to be courteous, then people **** you off, with no regards for others, LB you ain't getting old . I know what you mean mate and I am getting old LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 you go through life trying to be courteous, then people **** you off, with no regards for others, LB you ain't getting old . I know what you mean mate and I am getting old LB We all agree you are a old *** LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BountyHunter Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 I think I may be maturing, god I feel old, going to have a beer now and maybe a lie down. LB Now that proves that you aren't getting old, you still talk of beer, when you say cocoa - that's when to worry! Right I'm off for a nice Horlicks - Night all.. BH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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