mickmep Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 hi all. got a feeling its ok but please can i get your opinions. one of my friends who is not a shooter/certificate holder is coming to a local shoot to have a go this sunday. as he's not a certificate holder would he be ok to use one of my guns at the ground ? obviously we will both be travelling together etc and he will only have use of the gun at the ground in the stand, and i will be going round with him. any opinions please. thanks mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 i did this with a mate last week. north wales shooting school require safety training for none cert holders. catton hall just need them to sign in and they are your responsibility, same with the other clay shoot near manchester. maybe you should just call the shoot organiser and ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon 3 Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 Hi Mick The way i understand it works is that the club/ground need to have an section 11(6) exemption if they let non certificate holders shoot, this is to allow beginners to have lessons and corporate shoots to take place under supervision. However the responsibility lies with the owner of the gun, not the club regarding the safe use of said weapon, Thats the way it works where i shoot anyway. If your unsure prob best checking with the ground. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickmep Posted July 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 good point made by both replies, many thanks i didn't think to just phone the club to find out :blink: it's a local club, members only with the exception of guests. was the first place i shot and was lent a shotty by my neighbour who took me, but i dont know what was done 'behind the scenes' to allow me as a non sgc holder at the time to have a go. thanks lads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoughton Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 Hi Mick The way i understand it works is that the club/ground need to have an section 11(6) exemption if they let non certificate holders shoot, this is to allow beginners to have lessons and corporate shoots to take place under supervision. However the responsibility lies with the owner of the gun, not the club regarding the safe use of said weapon, Thats the way it works where i shoot anyway. If your unsure prob best checking with the ground. Hope that helps. That's my understanding too. Important to take that responsibility seriously too - exercising safety in every respect. Pre-shooting briefing to cover the basics of being safe, you loading the cartridges to start with etc. Keep on eye on them as with the best intent they can forget important things when they get excited! Enjoy. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickmep Posted July 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 That's my understanding too. Important to take that responsibility seriously too - exercising safety in every respect. Pre-shooting briefing to cover the basics of being safe, you loading the cartridges to start with etc. Keep on eye on them as with the best intent they can forget important things when they get excited! Enjoy. Steve Steve. got no problems with the safety side of things, as you'll appreciate at a small club its definately not a 'free for all'. safety is obviously absolutely paramount, and as quite rightly said he'll get plenty of help and supervision. thanks for taking time to reply, was really interested in the 'legality' of letting him use the gun under supervision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayman Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 It is not legal to be in possession, using or carrying, unless: You have a valid certificate covering the gun; or One of the two Section 11 exemptions applies. The first is sec 11(5) allowing the owner of land to lend a gun for use in his presence - usually used by game / estate shooters. You must have permission to be on the land ( that makes you the owner of the shooting rights for the purpose of this clause), and you must be "local" to the gun, ie at least in sight of it. On clay grounds the owner may have a section 11(6) allowing the named person on the exemption certificate to allow by supervision including delegated supervision, use of a sec 2 shotgun by an unlicenced person. This means that if the ground does NOT hold an 11(6) it is not legal for a SGC holder to supervise a loaned gun to a non-sgc person. And if the ground has an 11(6) unless they have specifically delegated the supervision, then the loan is also not legal. Many shooters beleive because they are cert holders they can just lend their gun "because the ground has an 11(6) ". This is not the case, the 11(6) holder MUST have given consent for this to be legal. This is very important, as most insurance policies covering grounds and individuals stipulate cover is in place only if the activity is LEGAL - so so if you lend your gun to a mate, even at an 11(6) ground, without the consent and approval of the 11(6) certificate holder - any insurance that might have covered you or the borrower may well be invalidated, and if an accident happened you might also loose your guns and license and risk a prosecution. Always make sure the non cert holders presence is known to either the shoot captain/gamekeeper/farmer etc for 11(5), or the ground owner at an 11(6) covered club. If you are not positive you are correctly covered by either 11(5) or 11(6), don't lend your gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 Decent last post. I hadn't considered the legal implications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 It is not legal to be in possession, using or carrying, unless: You have a valid certificate covering the gun; or One of the two Section 11 exemptions applies. The first is sec 11(5) allowing the owner of land to lend a gun for use in his presence - usually used by game / estate shooters. You must have permission to be on the land ( that makes you the owner of the shooting rights for the purpose of this clause), and you must be "local" to the gun, ie at least in sight of it. So if the land owner (or tennant? lends a gun to a person without SGC, it's OK)? but if the SGC holder using the ground does so it isn't? So lend your gun to the owner/tennant and they "lend" it to the bloke with no gun to shoot, and all is fine? As long as the owner is in sight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 So if the land owner (or tennant? lends a gun to a person without SGC, it's OK)? but if the SGC holder using the ground does so it isn't? So lend your gun to the owner/tennant and they "lend" it to the bloke with no gun to shoot, and all is fine? As long as the owner is in sight? According to my local FEO the definition isn't very clear and is a cause of much confusion, apparantly it's the landowner or an 'agent' of the landowner. But for clay grounds he said its ok to take someone without a certificate using you're gun where the owner has a section 11(6) exemption and he is informed and agrees. If you turn up at a shoot with a friend without a certificate, let him shoot but without telling anyone, you're going to lose your ticket and your guns and possibly a shed load of lot of cash if something goes wrong! Take new shooters from time to time, best way to help the sport grow. Take plenty of time to go over safe handling first and watch them like a hawk though. Never had an issue but never let my guard down if you know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
originalgeezer Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 (edited) As a recent "newbie" in October last year, the first place I shot with my friend, I had to do a mini introduction shoot with the instructor of the club, at which point the person then determined you were either safe or needed further instruction to shoot. This maybe just a local agreement as after that all the other shoots were I shared a gun, never questioned it or asked for a licence unless buying carts which my friend would buy if required. Just for information in case of question, full license and a regular shooter with two guns owned. Edited July 17, 2010 by originalgeezer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickmep Posted July 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 just to finish end this post from my point of view. i spoke to the club chairman in the week, asked/informed him that my guest has no sgc. in a nutshell, he can shoot under my instruction/supervision with my gun. he has to fill in a form at the club prior to shooting, not 100% sure but i think its a declaration that he's not banned from using shotguns etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWildfowler Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 How do you find out if a club hold a section 11 6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, MWildfowler said: How do you find out if a club hold a section 11 6? Ask them ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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