foxnet22 Posted July 16, 2010 Report Share Posted July 16, 2010 hi lads this probley been asked a hundred times but am in the middle of my fac application after finaly finding time.i am wanting a 17 hmr and a .22 rimfire,s where it says caibre do i simply put .22 or has it got to say .22 lr etc.i am only wanting a fac for rabbit control at present. and will ask my feo about the fox situation if i get my visit as am not sure if the 17 hmr is suitable for fox according to the northumbria fd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted July 16, 2010 Report Share Posted July 16, 2010 should be .22LR as there is another .22 calibre available which is a centrefire! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 16, 2010 Report Share Posted July 16, 2010 indeed James there are lots of .22 centrefires but 2 rimfires! .22lr and .22wmr not sure on your area but I'd just put down .22lr and HMR and write for vermin control, then not mention fox if you get vermin as a condition which you should then just shoot foxes sensibly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted July 16, 2010 Report Share Posted July 16, 2010 hi mate, for the .22 put down .22 RF (rimfire) Some forces allow .22 wmr on these which are at least twice the power of a standard .22lr, and are a perfectly reasonable foxing round. And ask for 2 of them, you might want a semi aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted July 16, 2010 Report Share Posted July 16, 2010 Lr - 'cos there is WMR in rimfire too. Ask for anything you are likely to want in the next five years even if you don't buy it. Few areas now allow fox as a good reason to acquire a rimfire so there is your 'excuse to go for a modest Centerfire as a starter - provided you have land that will pass for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted July 16, 2010 Report Share Posted July 16, 2010 indeed James there are lots of .22 centrefires but 2 rimfires! .22lr and .22wmr not sure on your area but I'd just put down .22lr and HMR and write for vermin control, then not mention fox if you get vermin as a condition which you should then just shoot foxes sensibly Not sure that is correct. Fairly certain 'fox' is a condition all of its own, and is not covered by the 'vermin' condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 16, 2010 Report Share Posted July 16, 2010 (edited) it is in Herts and a few others at which point it becomes pretty unenforceable to say we don't class a fox as vermin when other forces do and it certainly fits in a dictionary definition of vermin is pretty hard. However ask for fox and be told no and you really shouldn't shoot them, Edited July 16, 2010 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted July 16, 2010 Report Share Posted July 16, 2010 (edited) Therefore it would be adviseable for foxnet22 to do as he himself suggested, and check with his FEO, to see what the requirements are in his area. I wouldn't have thought a plea of "I didn't know I couldn't shoot them because I didn't ask" would stand up too well. Edited July 16, 2010 by Browning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 16, 2010 Report Share Posted July 16, 2010 (edited) if so then its always wording it occasional fox and at close range as its different to a foxing gun which it isn't, otherwise in theory you can't even use it to despatch a snared fox. The whole situation is ridiculous where forces make up the rules as they go along, why my HMR is more capable than one in a different county is beyond me, and having been told foxes count as vermin in my area and then having listed fox on it later on it really makes the situation a farce. I'd word it more I assumed foxes were Vermin which to me is a fair assumption to make Edited July 16, 2010 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted July 16, 2010 Report Share Posted July 16, 2010 it is in Herts and a few others at which point it becomes pretty unenforceable to say we don't class a fox as vermin when other forces do and it certainly fits in a dictionary definition of vermin is pretty hard.However ask for fox and be told no and you really shouldn't shoot them, Here in lies the dilemma, ask for fox and risk being turned down, or just get a calibre that's capable of fox and don't tell anyone that you're shooting them aswell. sometimes ignorance is bliss, that is until you get your collar felt. Personally i'd prefer to be clued up and legal regardless, unlike some of my mates. The varying degrees that different forces legislate the licensing system sometimes beggars belief, all you can do is be prepared, ask questions, talk to your FEO and find out what they regard as acceptible calibres for different species. One thing really puzzles me tho, if i shoot a fox with my .17hmr it's seriously frowned upon here in norfolk and i'd potentially lose my licence, however, if i choose to shoot said fox with a pissant 21g#8 clay load and luckily kill it then somehow that's ok? I know a few chaps round here that are so tight they won't buy anything heavier, yet somehow they get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 16, 2010 Report Share Posted July 16, 2010 you can be prosecuted for causing unnecessary suffering for injuring animals and that would apply whichever gun you are using and whether on your conditions or not and would cover the shotgun scenario. However in practice it never happens much like getting conditions checked it just doesn't occur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxnet22 Posted July 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2010 thanks lads for all your information very gratefull.maybe some members from northumbria area will be able to give me some info on the foxing caliber as they surely will know how the northumbria fd works.feel a bit uneasy posting my fac at present due to recent activities in northumbria area.but guess i will crack on and get it in so am off t post office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted July 16, 2010 Report Share Posted July 16, 2010 indeed James there are lots of .22 centrefires but 2 rimfires! .22lr and .22wmr not sure on your area but I'd just put down .22lr and HMR and write for vermin control, then not mention fox if you get vermin as a condition which you should then just shoot foxes sensibly As above. Think it would be hard to argue that foxes aren't vermin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colster Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 As above. Think it would be hard to argue that foxes aren't vermin Depends where they are, even rabbits aren't vermin on say heath land. A fox on a sheep farm could be classed as vermin but it would be tricky to make the same case on an arable farm. Vermin doesn't relate to a species, it relates to the impact of a species. In answer to the original question, I put .22LR on mine but it still came back as .22RF, so I guess I could buy a WMR. Personally I think LR/HMR is fine for occasional fox but to be really efficient it has to be able to knock em down at over 100yards, rimfires will struggle at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 Foxes are vermin full stop Arable farms can also have game on it that you want to protect :blink: really the .22hornet would be the minimum your after as a regular foxy gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 as stated, I suppose its down to the areas, I told my FAO, I would be using my .22lr rimfire for rabbits only, yet my license states I can use it to humanely kill ANY ANIMAL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 The FOX, CALIBRE, VERMIN debate has been done many times, there must be a lot to look at if you do a search!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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