Fibre wads in backbored barrels

[Cumbrian]

Is there any science or, failing that, are there any well-founded opinions about the possible disadvantages of using fibre wad cartridges in backbored or overbored, as some prefer to call them, guns? If asked for my own very amateur opinion, I would have thought that the theoretically less effective seal of a fibre wad over a plastic one would show up more in a barrel of .740 than in one of .729. I'd be very grateful for members' views and experiences as I am thinking of buying a gun with factory overbored barrels and all my shooting has to be done with fibre wads.

[sitsinhedges]

Wont the wad just expand to fit with all that pressure behind it and lead in front, you are only talking a couple of hundredths of a millimetre.

 

I own a Urika that is Optima bored and am not aware of any issues with the fibre wads I use.

[Cumbrian]

Thank you. Your experience is helpful and reassuring. And I can see the sense of your reasoning. Just wonder, however, why so many claim that plastic wads give better patterns etc if there isn't some difference in the respective sealing qualities - but I don't wish to start a diversion into that separate subject. Also, whilst I would agree that 10 thou. isn't much, it is also the difference between, say, quarter choke and half choke and there is certainly a difference in the results that the two chokes produce (I have recently done some patterning with my multi choke Browning, from skeet up to three quarter choke, not very scientifically but with interesting differences showing up nonetheless).

[seeker]

Several years ago the BASC published a series of articles on shotgun pattern tests and chokes. They should be on their website. One compares Plas v Fibre.

Personally the only times I have known a 'problem' is with reloads when the powder was damp (or?) and the primer just pushed the wad up the barrel .. plas slid easily but fibre needed a push with the rod.

I don't have any fibre to hand, but you could measure the diameter and see how it compares with the bore .. the imagine its shape with 2 tonnes of pressure behind it?

[Guest cookoff013]

i dont think there will be much of a disadvantage, if any at all.

my merkel is way overbored at 18.6mm.

some obturator discs and wads are thicker to accomidate the trend for the larger 12gauge barrels.

you can actually buy nitro cards for overbored barrels.

 

the wads flex and fit anyway, with 1000ftlbs or so, it will flex.

 

plastic will seal better, full stop.

 

i thought optima bore was slightly sub gauged. ie .725"

[Andy H]

a plastic wad has a powder cup that obturates (expands) into the bore diameter and gives a more effective seal , A fibre wad has no cup and does not seal as well as a plastic wad so an over bore might allow a bit more gas to blow past the wad.

[timps]

When worsley became a fibre wad only ground I did a bit of experimenting. A lot of people take the view that the pattern opens up with fibre wads as the shot is not held together in a plastic cup till it exits the barrel, to be honest I did not notice any difference whilst shooting.

 

What I did notice was the difference between cheap and expensive cartridges in fibre wads. When shooting plastic I don’t think there is a problem with consistency when shooting cheap cartridges, with fibre there definitely is.

 

Shooting the cheap ones you would get quite a lot that looked like the barrel was stuffed with confetti or some felt like a damp squid with a noticeable lack of recoil while others from the same batch gave quite a kick. Shooting with Hull Sovereigns or Gamebore blackgold fibre for instance there was no disadvantage at all and this was shooting with both Berretta optibore and Browning’s back bored barrels.

 

So in my opinion the type of fibre wad makes a big difference, you might find a cheap consistent fibre cartridge but I gave up and stuck with Gamebore blackgold and Hull sovereigns.

 

I was shooting over 200 carts a week so I was getting through a few to notice the inconstancies.

[COACH]

Now this is interesting because both myself and my friend are APSI shooting instructors and we like to get together every now and again and compare notes etc.

We have discovered that we both think that the 65mm Hull 21 gram Comp X cartridge is the dogs doo-da`s when it comes to the best all round clay cartridge. Good price, fantastic patterns that will kill at 65 yds and no recoil.

How ever if we use them in a brand new all singing, all dancing Browning /Beretta with 3 inch chambers back bores etc,etc,etc. the kills are not so good even if you use a different makers choke, ie Teague/Rhino etc.

Using an old Winchester 6500 m/c or Beretta 686 m/c with 70mm/2 3/4 inch chambers without the back boring etc,etc the performance is out standing with just imp/cyl. choke.

We are not entirely convinced about the use of these three inch chambers etc with 65/67mm cartridges.

There is a definite difference for the good with the 70mm cartridge though in the new guns but they take up more of the chamber of course.

We are doing a lot more testing on this because we find it interesting. :blink:

[JonnyR]

I had 2 days on pigeon this weekend Fri and Sun. Same place for the hide both times. Shot 50 and 20 for about 120 carts. 32g 6s. Mixture of hull fibre and gamebore plastic wads. Didn't notice much difference. More diff when I changed from 1/4 to 1/2 choke. Gun is a 28" Browning Maxus.

[Andy H]

If i remember rightly the difference between fibre and plastic is one point of choke ie if you use 1/2 choke with plastic you need to use 3/4 with fibre to retain the same pattern size as plastic , Have a look here http://www.shotgun-insight.com/fibreVsPlas...rterShells.html

Edited August 3, 2010 by Andy H

[Guest cookoff013]

If i remember rightly the difference between fibre and plastic is one point of choke ie if you use 1/2 choke with plastic you need to use 3/4 with fibre to retain the same pattern size as plastic , Have a look here http://www.shotgun-insight.com/fibreVsPlas...rterShells.html

 

choke is a % pattern, different shells different patterns

[Cumbrian]

Thanks, guys, for lots of interesting information and views. Plenty to digest here. Really grateful to all for your contributions. Moral seems to be that the overbored gun will be o.k. with fibre but I may need to be careful about the quality of cartridge I use. Good excuse for buying the best. Also probably need to go back to my home made patterning board with the new gun and the rather sad business of counting pellet holes!

[b682]

Price difference if fibre carts is unlikly to be due to a different type of fibre wade, unless you can afford true felt wads.

 

For most (eley use their own) UK and Euorpe manufactures use wads and overpowder card made by Diana in Italy so if it is a cheap clay basher or an expensive clay basher the wad will be the same - may be a difference in length of wad if the case is 67 or 70mm but the material in the wad will be the same.

 

The extra cost for expensive cartridges is probably in the type of powder used or the case construction if black gold for example they use a gordon recoil reducing case. Or high antinomy shot ie 6% in expensive 3% in cheap.

 

You can always take a cheap and expensive (same make) cart apart and you will then see the wads construction 99% cert be the same.

Edited August 3, 2010 by b682

[Harnser]

Oh my God ,another anomally to take into concideration . Shooting gets more and more complicated .

Harnser .

[Vince Green]

Oh my God ,another anomally to take into concideration . Shooting gets more and more complicated .

Harnser .

Its all right you can stop worrying, pigeons can't read these forums