CZ 452 .17HMR & kit advice

[strix]

Hello, I'm a new boy here but have been reading this site for some months.

 

I am waiting for my FAC but am researching exactly what I will eventually buy and I would like some advice and opinions from you all.

 

I will be buying (FAC permitting) a CZ 452 .17HMR and shooting on our own land in North Hampshire. As we are on chalk and flint and too close to a large town I don't stand a chance of getting a .22.

 

So question 1)

 

I will not be driving round the land nor travelling elsewhere with the gun so not shooting out of a LR window! Considering this I don't think I need to go for a short barrel and am looking at either a 20" Varmint or a 22.5" American. Does anyone have a preference for one over the other and if so why? Or do you think that that barrel length is unnecessary as I will not be shooting further than 150-175 yards.

 

Question 2)

 

The vexed question of budget optics. I can't justify the expense of Leupold/Zeiss/Svaroski just to shoot bunnies and magpies (which is what I will be shooting). My preferred choice at the moment is the Nikko Sterling Nighteater 6-24x56 IR with Mil Dot. Or does anyone think any of the Bushnell/Hawke alternatives on a circa £200 budget would be better?

 

Question 3)

 

I've read through many pages of this forum about Sound Mods and gather that on a .17HMR there is not much point on buying anything more expensive than the SAK. Agreed?

 

Additionally I will get the trigger kit from Rimfire Magic and a bi-pod.

 

Last Question) The land here has already had a FAO over the land been OK'd for a friend to shoot a .17HMR here. I have no "form" (as they say) and my wife is the landowner - do you think this will help speed the FAC up? Or does it always take an age? And how long has that age been for some you?

 

Sorry to have banged on at such length (maybe it is I who needs the Sound Mod!) but thank in advance for your advice.

 

Strix

[steve_b_wales]

Get a CZ452 Varmint with 20" barrel. I have one and it's brilliant, as are all the CZ 452's!

 

Look for a Nikko Sterling or HAWKE Endurance range of scopes (Hawke carry a 10 year warranty.) I used a Hawke on my 22-250 without any problems.

 

Get a SAK moderator, nothing wrong with them, and many CZ owners use them.

 

It should speed up your application a bit, as the land has already been cleared,

[kent]

Firstly some advice, don't assume the HMR don't bounce about it can, not as bad as the .22lr but i shouldn't shoot them differently.

 

Get the shorter version you won't loose any meaningfull speed and the moderator like a SAK will bring it back to normal length, longer tubes are for those who don't fit moddies

 

Are you comming from airgunning ? that type of scope is too big IMO 3-9 x is fine and 6x 42 is well useable under field conditions

 

Cut down your ranges i can shoot effectively in competition out to 1000 yds with c/fire but the 17 hmr blows 4" almost at 100 yds in a 10mph cross wind at ranges over 150 it is very hard to call the wind and get clean 1 shot kills. Personally myself and many others see it as a point and shoot gun for fair wind conditions to around 125 yds. It has and never will be the 200yds vermin gun it was marketed as

[kent]

Also trigger kit before you shoot it? Put 300 rounds through a CZ and i doubt you will ever bother mate, they get better and better all on thier own with use

[John_R]

Personally I like to save weight if I am going to be walking all day with a gun. So, a varmint barrel would not be for me. I actually wanted to buy the 20" American as they are cheaper than the 16"but the shop didn't have one in stock. I negotiated with them to split the difference and to be honest I am glad I did go for the 16, as I will use it both walking and driving.

 

So, I have the Silhouette 16" American. As for scope, I just dropped on an old AGS VIPIR 4-16 I had lying around. HMR shoots pretty flat, I don't see the point in fancy reticles, this one has mildots but I do wonder if they will ever get used!

 

I went for the SAK mod, having shot someone else's HMR with one. Tomorrow I am hoping to pick up a used .22 with a DM80 so I will be able to see how they compare, swapping them back and forth just to see.

 

As for the trigger, today was my first ever shoot with the gun, and compared to most of the rest of the rifles I have shot it is a bit creepy. However the pull weight, having wound it down to the minimum is not as bad as I was led to believe. I am tempted to do the trigger kit, at only 12 quid it doesn't sound a bad idea. Having read one of the above replies, maybe I'll give it a bit more time though.

 

The wind was a bit much today, I was shooting at Bisley at 100 yards, mostly working on my .243 and using the HMR in between groups while it cooled down. However, first impressions are good. With the breeze being the way it was, I decided not to try too hard for groups, and just simulate one-shot-kills. I had a series of small targets pinned up, and decided just to see if I could hit each one first time. Most of the time I did.

 

That's my take on it as a newbie to HMR anyway! :look:

Edited August 5, 2010 by john_r

[strix]

Thanks guys for replying so fast and for the common sense in all of your replies.

 

As to the gun following john_r's and kent's opinion I will opt for 16" with a SAK mod

 

And, kent, thank you for the fact that the Nikko 6-24x56 with Mil Dot is OTT. Does anyone have a particular recommendation for a 3-9 or 3-12 scope for a .17HMR? And does anyone have a view on the Nikko Laserking or is it just a gizmo too far and not for rifles?

 

Also, kent, I take your point about shooting distance (wind etc) with a .17HMR - the last thing I want is to have to go charging round the countryside after rabbits with three legs!

 

Thank you

Strix

[Beardo]

again 16" barrel gets a thumbs up from me as does the SAK.

Platinum nighteaters are good scopes in that price range - i personally like to shoot up to x16 for long range bunny headshots and winged vermin.

175 yards is a bloody long way and you need good conditions/experience to be able to shoot that far - keep it below 100 to start then push it when you get more experience.

[mick miller]

My ear tells me the ASE UTRA is quite a bit quieter than a SAK. But its £50 more.

 

I wouldn't go for a 20", a 16" is easier to handle when in a vehicle and there's no discernible drop in accuracy.

 

Fit a trigger kit without question. Just make sure it passes a slap test and isn't silly light. A 2lb pull is about right for me.

Edited August 5, 2010 by mick miller

[Luckyshot]

Hello, I'm a new boy here but have been reading this site for some months.

 

I am waiting for my FAC but am researching exactly what I will eventually buy and I would like some advice and opinions from you all.

 

I will be buying (FAC permitting) a CZ 452 .17HMR and shooting on our own land in North Hampshire. As we are on chalk and flint and too close to a large town I don't stand a chance of getting a .22.

 

So question 1)

 

I will not be driving round the land nor travelling elsewhere with the gun so not shooting out of a LR window! Considering this I don't think I need to go for a short barrel and am looking at either a 20" Varmint or a 22.5" American. Does anyone have a preference for one over the other and if so why? Or do you think that that barrel length is unnecessary as I will not be shooting further than 150-175 yards.

 

Question 2)

 

The vexed question of budget optics. I can't justify the expense of Leupold/Zeiss/Svaroski just to shoot bunnies and magpies (which is what I will be shooting). My preferred choice at the moment is the Nikko Sterling Nighteater 6-24x56 IR with Mil Dot. Or does anyone think any of the Bushnell/Hawke alternatives on a circa £200 budget would be better?

 

Question 3)

 

I've read through many pages of this forum about Sound Mods and gather that on a .17HMR there is not much point on buying anything more expensive than the SAK. Agreed?

 

Additionally I will get the trigger kit from Rimfire Magic and a bi-pod.

 

Last Question) The land here has already had a FAO over the land been OK'd for a friend to shoot a .17HMR here. I have no "form" (as they say) and my wife is the landowner - do you think this will help speed the FAC up? Or does it always take an age? And how long has that age been for some you?

 

Sorry to have banged on at such length (maybe it is I who needs the Sound Mod!) but thank in advance for your advice.

 

Strix

 

I have the exact same 17 HMR setup as you describe although 16" barrel, sak mod and Nikko Stirling Nighteater. I find the scope does everything I want it to do and more, I personall just leave it on x10 mag but the option of going higher is always there if I need it. As for it being to big I think it looks well on top of the 17 and the rifle combo dosent feel to heavy as I do alot of walking and shooting aswell as driving and shooting. My HMR has the £12 trigger kit from the bay, fitted in 15 min's and its not a hard job, as for a bipod there is a 9-13 harris sitting underneath her (not shown in pic) and makes the longer shot's 125yrds + alot more comfortable than leaning on a fence post. Here are some bags that my setup has achived.

 

 

And the rifle in question CZ 17 HMR/sak mod/Nikko Stirling Nighteater.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Luckyshot

[Colster]

I agree it's worth waiting a seeing how you find the trigger, they seem lighter out of the box now than of old but still a longish pull. Bought a kit for my LR and only used a sear tube, planning to do the same for my HMR as it lacks the crispness of my YoDave'd LR

 

I went for the 20" Silhouette for my HMR as I was on a tightish budget and the price difference was about £50 between barrel lengths although it was only £20 when I bought the LR so went for 16" then (as I'll use that more for 4x4 lamping anyway).

 

I'd stick with a SAK (and did), I found the noise of the gun is entirely down to the range you're shooting as it's the supersonic bullet making most of the noise anyway. When I started off zeroing mine, I had a target set at about 20yards just to get the scope on paper and it wasn't really very loud. Move the target back to 120yards and then you notice it echoing around the hillsides.

 

Scope wise you don't need anything uber, a decent amount of mag is nice to help you see bunnies heads at 150yards plus but I've been out to 140yards without coming off 6x.

[cooter]

Another vote for the 16" barrel.

 

I use a DM80 as I clean the mod after each outing, or at least every twenty rounds, and it very easy to strip.

The SAC it had on when I bought it was seized up, and it didn't have much in the way of baffles left after 500 rounds, so the accuracy went right off.

 

I have a Bushnell Legend 5-15 x 40, and it goes right down to last light.

 

If you need a trigger kit the one from SYS is cheap and does the job.

 

 

Cooter

[cooter]

Just realised that this is being sold.

 

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...=133459&hl=

 

 

Get your offer in as this is an excellent example, and a very good cause.

 

 

Cooter

[Frenchieboy]

I have a CZ 452 Varmint in 17HMR with a 20 inch barrel and I would not dream of parting with it unless I was offered a straight swap for another '452 Varmint in the same caliber but with a 16 inch barrel. I say this as I am doing a bit of shooting from my 4X4 plus the 20 inch Varmint barrel can feel a bit on the weighty side after a long days work or a hard nights lamping. I might even think about doing a straight swap for a '452 with a "16 inch sporter" barrel to make it that little bit lighter but it would have to shoot as tight a group as my varmint does! The other option for me is to get my Varmint cut down to a 16 inch barrel - at least then I know how the gun has been treated in the past!

[kent]

I use a 3-9x40 Leupold on mine mounted as low as possible, as i say the whole thing with the HMR is the flat shooting through it's most effective range so i don't see the point of high mounts. I also have the same gun in .22LR also that used to live with a higher mounted scope but i needed to raise the cheek on the stock to get a good mount.

Someone mentioned cleaning moderators, yet a dirty one with mangled old baffles will be quieter generally than a brand new super clean can. If anyone shot a SAK to bits in 500 rounds it wasn't the shooting that did it IMO. I stripped mine down after 300 more from intrerest than anything else and it wasn't even over dirty. Don't waste your time fiddling just buy a new one if it ever effects accuraccy (which i doubt it ever will). Only thing i do recomend is some sort of grease or anti seize compound on the barrel thread

[pegasus bridge]

My ear tells me the ASE UTRA is quite a bit quieter than a SAK. But its £50 more.

 

I wouldn't go for a 20", a 16" is easier to handle when in a vehicle and there's no discernible drop in accuracy.

 

Fit a trigger kit without question. Just make sure it passes a slap test and isn't silly light. A 2lb pull is about right for me.

 

 

i would agree with this - i have got the ASE UTRA and SAK Mod - the utra takes it - but tbh not a huge amount in it, in terms of scope - i have a cheap 6-24 mag scope on it - and its worked fine - i do use the higher mag (up to about x14) for the longer range shots, i have got the 16" heavy barrel, which although its heavy - its perfect on the bipod, IMHO the hmr is a cracking bit of kit!, in terms of ricochets - i have only had one in over 1000 rounds (it did sound horiffic though)

[Dekers]

Hello, I'm a new boy here but have been reading this site for some months.

 

I am waiting for my FAC but am researching exactly what I will eventually buy and I would like some advice and opinions from you all.

 

I will be buying (FAC permitting) a CZ 452 .17HMR and shooting on our own land in North Hampshire. As we are on chalk and flint and too close to a large town I don't stand a chance of getting a .22.

 

So question 1)

 

I will not be driving round the land nor travelling elsewhere with the gun so not shooting out of a LR window! Considering this I don't think I need to go for a short barrel and am looking at either a 20" Varmint or a 22.5" American. Does anyone have a preference for one over the other and if so why? Or do you think that that barrel length is unnecessary as I will not be shooting further than 150-175 yards.

 

Question 2)

 

The vexed question of budget optics. I can't justify the expense of Leupold/Zeiss/Svaroski just to shoot bunnies and magpies (which is what I will be shooting). My preferred choice at the moment is the Nikko Sterling Nighteater 6-24x56 IR with Mil Dot. Or does anyone think any of the Bushnell/Hawke alternatives on a circa £200 budget would be better?

 

Question 3)

 

I've read through many pages of this forum about Sound Mods and gather that on a .17HMR there is not much point on buying anything more expensive than the SAK. Agreed?

 

Additionally I will get the trigger kit from Rimfire Magic and a bi-pod.

 

Last Question) The land here has already had a FAO over the land been OK'd for a friend to shoot a .17HMR here. I have no "form" (as they say) and my wife is the landowner - do you think this will help speed the FAC up? Or does it always take an age? And how long has that age been for some you?

 

Sorry to have banged on at such length (maybe it is I who needs the Sound Mod!) but thank in advance for your advice.

 

Strix

 

 

Sometimes a little knowledge is a bad thing...there are VERY VERY few pieces of land in the UK where a HMR is acceptable and a .22lr is not (Yes, there are some), especially now, as...

 

CCI Quote....

 

FEATURES & BENEFITS

 

Segmented Hollow Point .22lr #0074

 

•Combines flat-shooting with extreme terminal effects

•Bullet breaks into three-parts on impact

•Each segment creates its own wound channel

Virtually eliminates the most common problem found with other .22LR rounds, namely bullet ricochet!

 

Talk you rour region if you want a .22lr!

Edited August 7, 2010 by Dekers

[strix]

Dekers, you are talking beyond my level of knowledge! So I apologise for being ignorant.

 

When I posted "As we are on chalk and flint and too close to a large town I don't stand a chance of getting a .22" and saying that I would, therefore, be going for a .17HMR I take your point "sometimes a little knowledge is a bad thing" which is why I had turned for advice to two professional shooters both employed by Hampshire County Council etc for Deer vermin control who have both shot here on our land and who told me this, the .17HMR, was the best rifle for the land here.

 

I am on this site, admitting my igonrance, which is I am asking for advice and I am not stating empirically what I will apply for and would grateful be if you or any others can educate and advise me further.

 

Are you, Dekers, saying that if I specified Segment Hollow point for a .22lr this would be safer and more sensible on the land here?

 

I see that you are in Berkshire so I guess you are pretty much on the same sort of land here (we are about 12 miles due south of Hungerford).

 

Advice from you and any others gratefully received.

 

Strix

 

p.s. I don't understand this sentence "Talk you rour region if you want a .22lr!"

 

 

Sometimes a little knowledge is a bad thing...there are VERY VERY few pieces of land in the UK where a HMR is acceptable and a .22lr is not (Yes, there are some), especially now, as...

 

CCI Quote....

 

FEATURES & BENEFITS

 

Segmented Hollow Point .22lr #0074

 

•Combines flat-shooting with extreme terminal effects

•Bullet breaks into three-parts on impact

•Each segment creates its own wound channel

Virtually eliminates the most common problem found with other .22LR rounds, namely bullet ricochet!

 

Talk you rour region if you want a .22lr!

Edited August 7, 2010 by strix

[Beardo]

all reports of that segmented CCI 22lr ammo i've heard of, say it groups horrendously and doesn't always segment!

[Dekers]

Dekers, you are talking beyond my level of knowledge! So I apologise for being ignorant.

 

When I posted "As we are on chalk and flint and too close to a large town I don't stand a chance of getting a .22" and saying that I would, therefore, be going for a .17HMR I take your point "sometimes a little knowledge is a bad thing" which is why I turned for advice to two professional shooters both employed by Hampshire County Council etc for Deer vermin control who have both shot here on our land and who told me this was the best rifle for the land here.

 

I am on this site, admitting my igonrance, which is I am asking for advice and I am not stating empirically what I will apply for and would grateful be if you or any others can educate and advise me further.

 

Are you, Dekers, saying that if I specified Segment Hollow point for a .22lr this would be safer and more sensible on the land here?

 

I see that you are in Berkshire so I guess you are pretty much on the same sort of land here (we are about 12 miles due south of Hungerford).

 

Advice from you and any others gratefully received.

 

Strix

 

p.s. I don't understand this sentence "Talk you rour region if you want a .22lr!"

 

 

You don't need to specify ammo to justify a .22lr on land, but you will almost certainly wish to apply for expanding ammo anyway!

 

If you think a .22lr is best for you, talk to your FLO (region) and ask his view, do not write it off on comments you may have heard. If you consider the HMR to be a better choice all round then just go for that, but asking for both .22lr and HMR on your application isn't going to cost a penny more!

 

ATB!

[Beardo]

i agree - ask for both and see what he says.

they both have their plusses and minusses and it's definitely worth having both

[strix]

Thanks to both of you, will apply for both as well as have a conversation with my region's FLO.

 

Strix

[Dekers]

all reports of that segmented CCI 22lr ammo i've heard of, say it groups horrendously and doesn't always segment!

 

 

I agree, I have about half my one and only original box left, I have no desire to buy any more!

 

But they are still an answer if questioned (VERY UNLIKELY) by FEO!!

[kent]

all reports of that segmented CCI 22lr ammo i've heard of, say it groups horrendously and doesn't always segment!

I have found it groups fine equal to Lapua in mine to 70yds. It kills very well indeed and truely segments into three sections in rabbit and Hare. On the ricochet front it is the same as the other .22 stuff and needs the same care

[Dekers]

I have found it groups fine equal to Lapua in mine to 70yds. It kills very well indeed and truely segments into three sections in rabbit and Hare. On the ricochet front it is the same as the other .22 stuff and needs the same care

 

 

That's interesting, the head breaks down easy enough for sure as I took one apart to see, and it fundamentally collapsed into pieces, didn't seem to break up so easily in the bunnies, perhaps I need to use the rest of the box to get a better idea, but frankly I have no faith in the stuff anymore.

 

One of CCI's main marketing ploys for it is how dramatically it reduces ricochets, I have not had any experiences to check this against, but from your experiences, and overall, it does seem to be shaping up to be a pretty expensive useless round.

[kent]

That's interesting, the head breaks down easy enough for sure as I took one apart to see, and it fundamentally collapsed into pieces, didn't seem to break up so easily in the bunnies, perhaps I need to use the rest of the box to get a better idea, but frankly I have no faith in the stuff anymore.

 

One of CCI's main marketing ploys for it is how dramatically it reduces ricochets, I have not had any experiences to check this against, but from your experiences, and overall, it does seem to be shaping up to be a pretty expensive useless round.

I believe the anti ricochet marketing is just aimed at the UK market. It is far for Useless it is the cleanest killing .22 round ever, period. Check out the thoughts on Rimfire central also. I Remain a Lapua fan though