setting a scope up level...

[eric parker]

How important is a level scope?

I bought an hmr 2nd hand from a very experienced shot who set all his scopes up with a small spirit level on gun and on turret, to make sure its level. Then i got a gunshop to set another scope up, and he did it by eye and said thats how people do it. My question is how much does it matter if its a little off?

Thanks, eric

[John_R]

A canted rifle will aim off, so getting the scope level is a good idea. Once you have the outfit level you'd be surprised how easy it is to still hold it wrong though. I put a dovetail mounted level on a target rifle for this very reason.

 

You can do it yourself at home if you first level the rifle with a spirit level, and then mount the scope and sight the cross hairs on a distant (at least 10 metres) plumb-line.

[MC]

The crosshairs need to be horizontal and vertical when the rifle is in YOUR shoulder, it makes no odds if the rifle is canted. As long as the sights are level. This is so the adjustments work as they should.

 

If the sights are canted then the windage adjustment will affect the elevation and vice versa.

[kent]

The crosshairs need to be horizontal and vertical when the rifle is in YOUR shoulder, it makes no odds if the rifle is canted. As long as the sights are level. This is so the adjustments work as they should.

 

If the sights are canted then the windage adjustment will affect the elevation and vice versa.

 

Uhh? i think this might be worded a bit funny i cannot fully understand it and can read it more than one way (it might just be me though) . However it is very important to have the cross hair running directly vertical in relation to the bore. I have seen loads of ways to do this and to a degree it depends on the action etc, though to test it here is how it is done.

 

Get a target set up at around your maximum zero range then with a long spirit level scribe a pen line totally vertical down it for say 2-3 ft with a cenral mark for an aim point. Now shoot two groups from a well rested posision alighning your reticule with the line and always shooting at the centre mark. Shoot one at maximum turret elivation and one at minimum. If the groups cross over either side of the line your scope is canted to the bore so mark its present posision with a pencil on the tube move it in the mounts and try again till you get both groups in good vertical alignment. Pointless doing this with a HMR unless there is a nil value head or tail wind

[Dunkield]

I set the gun level on a bipod and then set the scope up without moving the gun, to check I just line the verticle crosshair up the side of a long spirit level about 10 yards away.

It's up to you to hold the gun level after that - which is what I think MC meant.

[MC]

The bore is cylindrical, it makes absolutely no difference if you fire the gun on its side or upside down. As long as the crosshairs in the scope are vertical and horizontal.

 

Small bore target shooters will quite often cant the rifle for comfort and you can buy sights which are adjustable so they can be set vertically and horizontally. You can also buy a spirit level which is adjustable so you can set it at whatever cant angle you find preferable.

 

As dunkield has said, if you set the scope up level on a rifle that is level then you need to hold it level when it is in YOUR shoulder. If you find it easier to cant the rifle when holding it then set the scope up so the hairs are level and upright when the rifle is in your shoulder.

[John_R]

It does make a difference!! Yes, the bore is a cylinder, but when you cant the rifle the scope is no longer directly above the boreline, and the fall of shot will be off, especially beyond zero.

 

Do a google on "canted rifle" and you'll see plenty of info.

 

However, in practical hunting use, the effect is not huge.

[MC]

Yes the shot will be off if you set the rifle up true and level and zero it with the rifle level and then cant it.

 

However if you set it up how you normally shoot, then your POI will be the same regardless of the relationship between the barrel and scope. Yes you are correct the scope will not be directly above the bore but it doesn't matter.

 

I know of more than one shooter who shoots off his right shoulder but uses his left eye and offset sights.

 

 

 

[Beardo]

will that not only work at a set distance though (ie target shooting) - if the target is at a different range from the zero range, surely it will effect it?

[John_R]

I disagree. Even if you set up and zero with the whole outfit canted, the fall of shot will be off at different ranges.

[MC]

It is obviously too difficult for you to grasp so I won't bother anymore. The only thing that alters with varying distance (ignoring the wind) is the elevation, if the scope or sights are upright and level then there is no difference. The barrel and scope move together.

 

To the original poster, yes it is imperative that your rifle and scope is absolutely level otherwise you will never hit another thing.

[Paddy Galore!]

To the original poster, yes it is imperative that your rifle and scope is absolutely level otherwise you will never hit another thing.

 

 

So that's why i can't hit anything! and all this time i was thinking it was due to the gravitational pull of the moon!

[John_R]

Let's just leave it to the original poster to Google "canted rifle" and decide for himself. I cannot see the point in setting anything up wrong, but if that's how you like it then have at it.

 

A visual aid can be found here: http://www.arld1.com/images/swfs/impactpointvscantangle.swf

[Dunkield]

Then i got a gunshop to set another scope up, and he did it by eye and said thats how people do it.

To answer this bit specifically, if it was mine I would take it off and put it back on myself.

[al4x]

It is obviously too difficult for you to grasp so I won't bother anymore. The only thing that alters with varying distance (ignoring the wind) is the elevation, if the scope or sights are upright and level then there is no difference. The barrel and scope move together.

 

To the original poster, yes it is imperative that your rifle and scope is absolutely level otherwise you will never hit another thing.

 

 

not sure if points are being confused but if the scope isn't set level and hence vertical with the centre of the bore then any elevation changes will move the POI to one side or the other I think you both mean the same thing possibly but to my mind it matters not how you hold the gun as long as the cross hairs are set up properly with the bore not level depending how you hold the gun. As Dunkield says just set it up on a bench on a bipod against a spirit level.

Edited August 10, 2010 by al4x

[shooting charley]

Here is a test for you to tell if it is correct??

 

 

Shot 1 . . Shot 2 move the scope right 10 clicks (aim point 1st hole.)

 

 

Shot 4 . . Shot 3 move the scope down 10 clicks (aim point 1st hole.).

 

move the scope left 10 clicks (aim point 1st hole.)

 

if it is correct you will get a square when the shot holes are joined. move scope up 10 clicks back to to zero.

 

 

shootingcharley. :blink:

Edited August 10, 2010 by shooting charley

[Graham M]

The bore is cylindrical, it makes absolutely no difference if you fire the gun on its side or upside down. As long as the crosshairs in the scope are vertical and horizontal.

 

Small bore target shooters will quite often cant the rifle for comfort and you can buy sights which are adjustable so they can be set vertically and horizontally. You can also buy a spirit level which is adjustable so you can set it at whatever cant angle you find preferable.

Oh dear. Sorry..wrong

As a smallbore shooter of many moons I shoot with a very much canted rifle so much so that when I move from 25yds to 50mtrs I have not only to move the elevation 10 clicks, but also the windage 4 clicks.

And when I move out from 50 to 100 yds I have not only to move the elevation 42 clicks but have to move the windage another 8-10 clicks.

The reason being that if the rifle is canted then the shot will automatically follow the line of the barrel and not the sight. You adjust the sight to suit.

This means that as you shoot out to a further distance, then the barrel is pointing further out to the side (the left in a right-hand shooter). If you simply adjusted the elevation and not the windage you would be miles out to the left when you shot at a greater distance.

Thus if you canted a rifle and put the scope upright, although the cross hairs would be in the middle at one distance they would be out when you shot at another.

It’s easy with a match rifle because you are only shooting at a known distance so you can zero the sights to suit.

I think the tekkernical term is crossover.

G.M.

[Dekers]

In principle it makes jack if you hold the rifle the same way as it is canted, best to get it level the way you hold the gun.

 

Everyone holds the gun slightly differenly...my lad knows where to point mine now out of experience, but his are set up slightly differently.

[kent]

Here is a test for you to tell if it is correct??

 

 

Shot 1 . . Shot 2 move the scope right 10 clicks (aim point 1st hole.)

 

 

Shot 4 . . Shot 3 move the scope down 10 clicks (aim point 1st hole.).

 

move the scope left 10 clicks (aim point 1st hole.)

 

if it is correct you will get a square when the shot holes are joined. move scope up 10 clicks back to to zero.

 

 

shootingcharley.

 

This tests scope tracking and return to zero, it can also test vertical alighnment but generally the vertical line test is easy and foolproof as not all scopes track well but you can be sure they will go up and down. If your scope don't track well then "shooting the box" might show false error