Comparing a .222 to a .223

[Frenchieboy]

I am only asking out of interest as I am quite happy with my Bruno .222 but can anyone tell me what the basic differences are between the .222 and the .223 as a foxing rifle. I have heard of a few people going form the triple up to the 223 but have never found out what the differences are.

Anyone, in laymans language please?

[HARRIS]

I think (just my opinion from what i have heard) that the ammo is difficult to aqquire compared to a .223. Thats what my 'mentor' said anyway. Apart from that I dont think there is a noticeable difference, but I dont really knw as I dont own a centrefire or have FAC.

 

Harris

[ST3V3]

I think harris hit the nail on the head with the ammo. dont quote me but i think most manufactures have dropped the .222 from there range of rifles

there popular in france as I dont think there allowed the .223

Edited September 11, 2010 by ST3V3

[Dekers]

If you already have a .222 and are happy with ammo supply then I see very little point in trading it for a .223!

 

Perhaps a 22-250 or even a .243 but I feel there is little to be gained with a .223.

 

IF you were starting from scratch, and the choice was .222 or .223 then I would juggest .223 without hesitation!

 

[HARRIS]

there popular in france as I dont think there allowed the .223

Yeah I read somewhere on here that they aren't allowed to use millitary calibres for hunting so the .222 may very well be popular on the continent.

Edited September 11, 2010 by HARRIS

[dunganick]

No practical differences.

 

More often than not the following is true though.

 

.222 does tend to be a more inherently accurate round (less fussy), one of the reasons it was such a successful Benchrest round (this isn't to say it is more accurate, just that finding a good load is easier).

 

.223 typically (but not always) comes in faster twist rates, as such it should work better with heavier projectiles than the .222.

 

There is also a very minor velocity difference (but nothing worth writing home about)

 

.223 guns, ammo and components tend to be easier to source as many manufactures no longer produce .222 firearms.

 

Personally i would rather have a .222 any day of the week. But with Lapua no longer producing brass and alot of companies not bothering with it anymore, it is fast becoming an 'old' cartridge.

[macca]

Hi,

222 and 223 both excellent cartridges. Back in the 60's and 70's the 222 was the benchrest cartridge. There is a slight increase in case capacity between the two which will give the 223 about 250fps increase in velocity for a 50gn projectile. The 223 is available from more rifle manufacturesrs and in more models. Ammunition availability and variety is also greater with the 223.

Agood second hand 222 at the right price is still a very good buy but for a new gun go for a 223. Remember a good chamber reamer will change your 222 to a 223 easily (gunsmith of course)

In the end charlie won't be able to tell the difference.

Cheers

[Frenchieboy]

OK Guys thanks for the info! So from what I can see the biggest and possibly most important difference between the two is the availability if the ammo as the .222 amunition is slowly becoming much harder to source. If that is the case and, bearing in mind that I am extremely happy with my .222 then if I were in time to find problems getting ammo for it (It currently loves Partizan 50gr Softpoints above any other ammo I have tried) then the answer might be to get a good gunsmith to use a chamber reamer to take it up to a .223. If that is correct would I not have to get the rifle re-proofed and of course would I still retain the accuracy that I am getting at present (I am able to put a 1 inch group at 100 yards quite easily at the moment)

Finally, if I did decide to go down that road at any time in the future what might I expect the price to be for the work including the re-proofing. (Just a "ball park figure" will do fine at the moment as I don't see that situation arising for a good while yet!)

 

Sorry if these questions seem a bit basic but I am just trying to look at and understand all the options!

[ST3V3]

simple answer is to reload

50gr speer magtech primer 20gr tubal 2000

4 shots at 100 yards

Edited September 12, 2010 by ST3V3

[dunganick]

I would stick with what you have.

 

If your not having issues with the .222 or getting ammo for it, then stick with it.

[Evil Elvis]

I dont have any problems getting .222. and i am now about to reload so...no issue, very accurate little gun, very forgiving, like a big hmr really, shoots very flat out to 250 yards+

[jamie g]

yes the 223 will push 40 and 50 grain bullets aroud 200 to 300 fps faster. of course all depend son barrel length and powder if your reloading.

 

i wouldnt have your current rifle changed to 223 it isnt worth it. just reload for the 222 and you will have no need to worry about getting ammo. as they use the same bullet heads. brass for the 222 is easy to get and vit 133 or reloader 7 powder for it is great.

 

this link below is for a gunshop over in derby that have 7 different lots of ammo for the 222 and the sako rounds are very good. ideal for fox and a munty.

http://www.nevilleguns.com/cartridges-ammu...fire-Ammunition

 

i think the 222 is a good 200 rifle maybe 250 yards on a nice day if you no the drop.

and the 223 as a 250 yard rifle to 300 yard rifle on a good day.

22/250 as a 300 yard rifle is pretty easy and will go to 400 yards if your good enough

 

i like the 222 its nice to shoot. not much kick and is very accurate and qucik to get a load for. just load it up with what powder and bullet you want to use. take a load out the book for that bullet and powder set the col to what your mag will take.

 

and i bet it shoots well. then just adjust it to suite.

 

here is the 222 i use. its not the fastest load but sub 200 yards its more then quick enough and accurate this group is at 100 yards.

the 50 grain tnt bullets are worth a look in 222 as they where made for that round i have some here and will be lokking for a load with this bullet very soon.

 

for now the 40 grain blizkings im suing in that target picture are very good and expand superb. Frenchieboy my mate use to have a cz 222 and it was very accurate also.

i no each rifle is different but i bet he could give you some info on the loads for it. that will help you find a good load for yours

 

Edited September 12, 2010 by jamie g

[Evil Elvis]

Soooooo the .222 can be loaded with .223 bullet heads?

[kent]

.222 rem is the better gun acuraccy wise having a longer neck supporting the bullet head better and the extra FPS in the .223 changes the recoil although neither is bad i think it is the factor in why the triple deuce nearly always outshoots the shooter yet the .223 rem seems only to match it or do slightly worse. Any centrefire should shoot 1" nowadays at 100yds but the .222 will nearly always do better. Does this matter much to the average 200 yds fox ? Nope!

You will seriously struggle to get a smith to run thier reamer into your old factory barrel (reamers are expensive as are reputations) better buying a new gun when yours is done or buying a new tube of known metalurgy from the smith and trusted by the smith they also make a bit on the tube so it cuts what they want for labour using a supllied tube (around £500 fitted)

[Graham M]

Soooooo the .222 can be loaded with .223 bullet heads?

 

The .222,the .223 and the .22-250 ALL use .224 bullets.

The .22Hornet used to use .223 bullets but most modern .22 Hornets use .224 bullets.

 

G.M.

[Frenchieboy]

Thanks everyone for the info. I am not having any problems at the moment and I am delighted with what my .222 will do for me. It would possibly be a little more accurate with someone else behind the trigger but I have yet to have a single fox complain about the way my .222 shoots. All I was doing was looking towards the future so for now I will stay as I am, certainly till the rifle gives up the ghost or until I can no longer get the ammunition for it! I have to say that I much prefer the tripple compared to the 22-250 that I had, even if the 22-250 did have a bit more "oomph" behind it, the tripple seems to suit my requirements - Let's face it, if you cant get to within about 200 yards of a fox then maybe you ought you would be better leaving them alone!

[jamie g]

Thanks everyone for the info. I am not having any problems at the moment and I am delighted with what my .222 will do for me. It would possibly be a little more accurate with someone else behind the trigger but I have yet to have a single fox complain about the way my .222 shoots. All I was doing was looking towards the future so for now I will stay as I am, certainly till the rifle gives up the ghost or until I can no longer get the ammunition for it! I have to say that I much prefer the tripple compared to the 22-250 that I had, even if the 22-250 did have a bit more "oomph" behind it, the tripple seems to suit my requirements - Let's face it, if you cant get to within about 200 yards of a fox then maybe you ought you would be better leaving them alone!

 

not allways the case tho mate some foxes just wont come in no matter what. maybe they have been shot at before. and all depends on the ground you shoot over. the firelds here in the midlans are very big in some ares. and 200 + yard shots are common

[macca]

The modern hornet, 221 fireball, 222, 223, 22/250, 22 PPC, 22BR, 220 swift, 22wssm, 5.6x50mag and other wildcats all use .224 projectiles. The 223 is in fact as accurate as the 222 but was never developed as a short range bench rest cartridge (the PPC family prevented that). It has been developed as long range target cartridge for full bore, F class open, and F class standard and is competitive out to 800 metres (80 gn vld projectile 1 in 8 or 1 in 7 barrel usually 30+ inches long)

Reamers are relatively cheap (about $150 from Pacific Tool and Gauge in the US) Modern barrel steel -chrome moly or stainlees dont change between different calibres -that would be an exhorbitant cost to firearm manufactures. Out here barrels are re reamed all the time - a target barrel in its life may have been cut and rechambered 3 times to eliminate throat erosion.

Cheers

Edited September 12, 2010 by macca

[Frenchieboy]

not allways the case tho mate some foxes just wont come in no matter what. maybe they have been shot at before. and all depends on the ground you shoot over. the firelds here in the midlans are very big in some ares. and 200 + yard shots are common

 

I take your point Jamie and agree that when some foxes get "educated" they will not come in whatever yopu do but I am sure that you will agree that those cases do not happen too often unles the ground is worked by "inexperienced" shooters/lampers. I was using the sentence "Let's face it, if you cant get to within about 200 yards of a fox then maybe you ought you would be better leaving them alone!" as a bit of a generalisation and I will happily concede that it is not always the case in all situations but I am sure that you will agree that (In most cases) you ought to be able to call a fox in to within under 200 yards!

I hope that I have not offended!

[jamie g]

I take your point Jamie and agree that when some foxes get "educated" they will not come in whatever yopu do but I am sure that you will agree that those cases do not happen too often unles the ground is worked by "inexperienced" shooters/lampers. I was using the sentence "Let's face it, if you cant get to within about 200 yards of a fox then maybe you ought you would be better leaving them alone!" as a bit of a generalisation and I will happily concede that it is not always the case in all situations but I am sure that you will agree that (In most cases) you ought to be able to call a fox in to within under 200 yards!

I hope that I have not offended!

 

 

not at all mate. i understand what your saying. the average shot round here is around 175 yards. had some around the 120 yard mark. when ive just come across them milling about in the fields after food and we have past them on the track over looking the fields.

[wyatt]

The modern hornet, 221 fireball, 222, 223, 22/250, 22 PPC, 22BR, 220 swift, 22wssm, 5.6x50mag and other wildcats all use .224 projectiles.

 

This has really confused me! I've my SGC and if I can generate the relationship with someone who has access to alot of land near me, hope to apply for my FAC and get a rimfire for the lettuce munchers and something a bit bigger in Centrefire for Foxes etc. I'm really confused with the calibers and bullets that are available and am trying to put together as much info as possible to aid in decision making. How can .22 use a .224 projectile!?

 

My colleague uses a .222 HK (reloading his own) but also has a .177 and .22 (both HKs), I'm assuming that they use different cartridges/weights/etc. I realise that there is very little between .22 and .224, but is it that little that it doesn't matter?

 

Cheers!

[al4x]

they all use the same sized projectiles as they all use the same diameter barrel, its the case thats different in size. technically all are classed as .22 centrefires,

 

if your mate reloads .222 its probably worth getting the same if he will reload for you

[dunganick]

Basically .222 .223 .221 are all just names. The numbers don't really mean anything. They all use .224 projectiles which are affectionately known as .22 Centerfires (again just a name).

 

Personally i would never let someone else handload for me. I want to know that when i blow myself up it was 100% my fault.

 

I suggest you buy the Nosler or Hornady reloading manuals, you can look at all the calibres, they give a quick review of the calibre and all the measurements of the cartridge (including projectile diameter, you will learn alot)

[Graham M]

All .22 calbre but all .224 (although the .22H (the 3rd one from the left may be .223)

 

 

[macca]

Hi,

the pic shows four of the cases mentioned in my previous post -they are the 221 fireball(left)then 222, 223 and 22BR. They all take 224 diameter projectiles. Names for cases can be very frustrating , none of these indicate bullet diameter or case capacity while other cartridge designations do. There is also dual designations such as the 308/7.62 and 223/5.56 situation.

If you want a good source of reloading data and for the 222 and 223 and you have accss to benchmark (ADI Benchmark 2) or 4895 (ADI AR2206H) then check this site out - the data is accurate and free. http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/

Cheers