MINIMUM BARREL LENGTH FOR CLAY SHOOTING

[achray]

Anyone know if there is a rule on minimum barrel length for clay shooting. I have just been told by a local shoot not to use my section 1 19" barrel over & under there again. They have no concerns over my gun handling or safety, i scored about 75% & have shot there for years but they say the cpsa have a 26" minimum rule (my fac states all my smooth bore guns can be used for clay shooting so no legal problems).The only reference i can find on the cpsa website is the tech. data for gun & cartridges which has a min. 66cm for fitasc.

[apache]

What reason on earth would you want such a short barrel?

[manxman2]

multi-purpose apache, clays and banks.

[Paddy Galore!]

What reason on earth would you want such a short barrel?

Why not?

I want one too, in 10g, and slugs for wild boar. :unsure:

 

 

Regardless, if your local club don't like it then there's not much you can do. There's one near me that didn't like me using the spas, nothing illegal about it, just some people have to enforce their opinions, i guess it makes them feel important.

Edited October 10, 2010 by GRAM71

[CZ550Kevlar]

My Section 1 shotgun has the clay shooting condition so i can use it where ever i like but a couple of my local clubs just don`t plain allow them, nothing to do with barrel length half the time just the whole section 1 stigmatism for some reason.

[HDAV]

CPSA 26" minimum? you can have a 24" Section 2 legally and I am sure there are juniors using 25" barrels, how long is the Hatsan Junior Semi 20g barrel? 24" or 26" why doesn't the CPSA stick to 24" same as the law?

 

I would contact the CPSA for clarification

Edited October 10, 2010 by HDAV

[fluke2]

A lot of the clay clubs wont allow FAC shotguns simply because of past

problems of people sticking 5 up the spout in a semi when on the various

stands.I once stood on a DTL with a guy thought it was funny to fire 3 to 5

shots at every clay he was barred after about 30 shots at around 8 clays.

[cowboy1403]

their club their rules.

 

like it or lump it

[achray]

What reason on earth would you want such a short barrel?

 

For what reason would you want any shotgun . I have have shot clays for 35yrs. I qualified as a senior range officer with the ukpsa & am a range conducting officer for military ranges. The idea is to enjoy yourself safely. If i shoot seriiously i use my dt10, lighten up & have a laugh, with 19" barrels im giving my mates a chance.

[achray]

Why not?

I want one too, in 10g, and slugs for wild boar.

 

 

Regardless, if your local club don't like it then there's not much you can do. There's one near me that didn't like me using the spas, nothing illegal about it, just some people have to enforce their opinions, i guess it makes them feel important.

 

Funny you have posted that 2 weeks ago i was with Turkish mates just outside Marmaris & i shot 4 young boars with slug. You dont even require a licence because they are vermin like rabbits.

[poontang]

If I owned a clay ground I wouldn't allow the use of a gun with 19" barrels, or, for that matter a SPAS or similar guns.

 

Not that I personally would have a problem with them, but you have to look at the bigger picture here.

 

With guns being back in the news for all the wrong reasons at the moment it's imperitive that we, as shooters, give out the right impression of our sport.

Imagine someone coming to the ground for their first lesson and seeing 'military' type shotguns or 'sawn off' shotguns on the range. WE might know that they're perfectly legal and above board but what sort of impression would it give to Joe public?

You've only got to remember the numpty in Cumbria claiming Derrick Bird had a 'massive sniper rifle' with a 'huge' scope to see how things can be twisted, and how the public react to people being 'allowed' such weapons.

It's all very well saying that if you're safe that's all that matters, and as a shooter I'd tend to agree with that, but not everyone is a shooter, and those people's views may already have been tainted by negative press and media coverage. So for a newcomer to the sport to come to a clay ground and see what they percieve to be 'military' and 'sawn off' guns on display would, in my opinion, give out the wrong message.

[Canis]

If I owned a clay ground I wouldn't allow the use of a gun with 19" barrels, or, for that matter a SPAS or similar guns.

 

Not that I personally would have a problem with them, but you have to look at the bigger picture here.

 

With guns being back in the news for all the wrong reasons at the moment it's imperitive that we, as shooters, give out the right impression of our sport.

Imagine someone coming to the ground for their first lesson and seeing 'military' type shotguns or 'sawn off' shotguns on the range. WE might know that they're perfectly legal and above board but what sort of impression would it give to Joe public?

You've only got to remember the numpty in Cumbria claiming Derrick Bird had a 'massive sniper rifle' with a 'huge' scope to see how things can be twisted, and how the public react to people being 'allowed' such weapons.

It's all very well saying that if you're safe that's all that matters, and as a shooter I'd tend to agree with that, but not everyone is a shooter, and those people's views may already have been tainted by negative press and media coverage. So for a newcomer to the sport to come to a clay ground and see what they percieve to be 'military' and 'sawn off' guns on display would, in my opinion, give out the wrong message.

 

I think the numpty actually refered to the huge "shotgun with the telescopic site"

 

 

I've heard of a couple of clay grounds that have banned semi auto's altogether on safety grounds.I guess that every ground has the right to make its own rules! So long as the rule is not being made solelyto meet the requirements of their insurers I see no problem with that.

[MC]

If I owned a clay ground I wouldn't allow the use of a gun with 19" barrels, or, for that matter a SPAS or similar guns.

 

Not that I personally would have a problem with them, but you have to look at the bigger picture here.

 

With guns being back in the news for all the wrong reasons at the moment it's imperitive that we, as shooters, give out the right impression of our sport.

Imagine someone coming to the ground for their first lesson and seeing 'military' type shotguns or 'sawn off' shotguns on the range. WE might know that they're perfectly legal and above board but what sort of impression would it give to Joe public?

You've only got to remember the numpty in Cumbria claiming Derrick Bird had a 'massive sniper rifle' with a 'huge' scope to see how things can be twisted, and how the public react to people being 'allowed' such weapons.

It's all very well saying that if you're safe that's all that matters, and as a shooter I'd tend to agree with that, but not everyone is a shooter, and those people's views may already have been tainted by negative press and media coverage. So for a newcomer to the sport to come to a clay ground and see what they percieve to be 'military' and 'sawn off' guns on display would, in my opinion, give out the wrong message.

 

 

I would actually go along with that,

 

At my local club shoot yesterday there was a guy with an AK 47 looking shotgun which a few guys were rattling cartridges through. It impessed me about as much as one of Bazza's farts in a diving suit would.

 

Maybe I have lost my sense of humour but I couldn't see the point of rattling 10 cartridges at a clay rapidly.

[HDAV]

I can understand not allowing Section 1 but as long as the safety rules are followed i think it's the user rather than the gun that is the issue, I am wary of semi's at clay shoots but saw a guy using a pump yesterday, looked a bit odd but the guy was very safe with it.

[masterzone2]

One too many snobs by the sound of it, what happened to understanding your firearm in a safe environment I hear of many people

using clay grounds to, test, get use to, understand and remain "at one" with their shotgun.

Joe public knows 100% **** about everything I am due to get an M16 for target shooting (dont say a bloody word!)

WHY: because I was able to hit the target better with the M16 oppose to that PC piece of **** I am having to use at the moment.

I don't think it would hit the target if I put the muzzle 1mm away from it.

use the firearm thats best for you if some where don't like it then don't give you money to them.

Remember your fellow legal firearm owner is on the same side as you when it come to the anti gun fools

if you don't back them up WE won't be there to back you up.

OH BTW how are people getting 19" shotguns???

was always told by FLO that it has to be 24" full stop.

[clayman]

CPSA rules apply to CPSA Registered Shoots. Other than certain restrictions on porting etc for some disciplines, any shotgun may be used ( section 1 or 2) within Registered Competition Rules as far as the CPSA is concerned - BUT, what any individual ground owner wishes to impose at a local club rule is entirely their commercial decision. If a person owns a Section 1 shotgun, its usually because either it takes more than 3 cartridges in a semi or a pump, or its a drilled shotgun, or it has a rifled bore ( used for spreading shot in some wildfowling pieces) or the barrel is under the UK min of 24". If a person owns a Sec 1 shotgun, their fire-arms certificate will specify the use for which it was acquired, so the owner's certificate will say if its approved by the police for clay shooting or not. Provided no more than 2 cartridges are used, any clay shot approved section 1 shotgun is permissible within CPSA rules subject only to any secondary discipline formulas for the guns ( viz no compensators / removable ported chokes etc in trap ).

[gixer1]

I am kinda if the opinion that if you want to use one of these at a range then fine! Some people jump out of planes and I think that's stupid but at the end of the day it's a hobby! The guy firing 10 shells at a clay? So what! Was it really hurting anyone? Rather there at a clay than some walt walking about the streets with one!

[clayman]

If the shotgun is a section 1 because the can can take more than two in the magazine, CPSA rules still state a max of two can be loaded.

 

As all clay disciplines allow only one or two shots at the target, the CPSA considers it unsafe to load more than two shells. This is to prevent a shooter moving between stands with un-used shells still in the magazine/chamber, and/or to ensure the shooter does not loose count and beleive their gun is empty while there is still one or more up the spout.. If you only have two shells loaded, its unlikely the shooter will be un-aware that they still have a shell in the gun if they only take one shot of the two allowed at the stand - but if they had, say, loaded 7 at a DTL station and taken out 4 first barrel, and one second, they might loose count and move stations with one still on board. Multi-shot sec 1 shotties may have a place in game shooting, but additional shells beyond two loaded have no place in a clay scenario and a section 1 shotgun must be used as though it were a normal sec 2 if its used at a CPSA Reg competition, and most clay grounds would insist on this for all clay shooting whether its a CPSA Comp or not, for basic safety reasosns.

[Dr_Scholl]

I would actually go along with that,

 

At my local club shoot yesterday there was a guy with an AK 47 looking shotgun which a few guys were rattling cartridges through. It impessed me about as much as one of Bazza's farts in a diving suit would.

 

Maybe I have lost my sense of humour but I couldn't see the point of rattling 10 cartridges at a clay rapidly.

 

It's called a Saiga 12. Quite popular over here.

[masterzone2]

If they are worried about people moving around with a "loaded" shotguns

then surely there are rules in place such as checking the gun before moving off

BASIC RULE and surely anyone who cannot be sure of this surely should not be in possession of the shotgun

FULL STOP.

I can understand competitions not using them as some "could" cheat but for practice, learning

and understanding ANY shotgun the clay range is the best place for this.

And personally I wouldn't go to any clay range that would not use common sense on such safe practices.

[clayman]

Yes of course there are safety Rules - but CPSA rules actually only apply to CPSA Registered Competition. Everything else is just a recommended best practice.

 

At all ordinary club shoots, its the ground owners decision about what safety criteria they want at the ground- and to adopt all or part of CPSA Registered / Ground rules as the safety criteria for general ground operation is pretty much the norm as ground owners don't want to be for ever being concerned about the actions of shooter's with guns that could potentially create a dangerous scenario.

 

There is no reason that in controlled situations with competent people that there is any additional risk - but at an open shoot with all comers the potential for a person with poor safety discipline creating an additional risk still exists. Most ground owners would prefer not to have to deal with that, so banning multi-shot or other sec 1 shotguns is fairly common as it simply removes that potential risk.