bullet boy Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 You are talking about V-bulls, target boards and shooting clubs. You are talking about target shooting. Indeed, I would assume that you probably do quite a bit of it and are good at it. Fair do's. What I can't understand is how people are missing the point. No one is disputing that the shot couldn't be made, of course it could. However, we are talking about shooting at living creatures that deserve respect and as guaranteed clean kill as an ethical hunter can provide. 700 yards does not meet that criteria. From the original post, I ask the simple question of "why just not get nearer?". Totally right! If the gentleman wanted to shoot the Hare in the first place,why didn't he shoot it with a Rimfire and at a much much closer range, therefore reducing the chance of wounding it and if that did happen he would be near by to despatch it very quickly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Totally right!If the gentleman wanted to shoot the Hare in the first place,why didn't he shoot it with a Rimfire and at a much much closer range, therefore reducing the chance of wounding it and if that did happen he would be near by to despatch it very quickly! Mate just give up. There's a couple of seriously thick long distance target shooters that think this thread is having a pop at them or questioning their "skillz" and there's one or two that think that there is a serious sport to shooting something that lives and breathes from half a mile away for no reason. Indeed, I still await to understand why there was any *need* to take the shot and just not get nearer. Silly me. Worry not, all the normal people who aren't thick retards, well fortunately they "get it" and like you and me will be reading this thread and shaking their heads and making a mental note of who is a tool and who is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfisherman Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Mungler.. I do agree that there are different ways to harvest hares, i personally would be in the club that if they need controlling, i would be taking them with a .22 at a sensible distance. I can then sell or eat the hare. All is rosy.. Can i guarantee a clean kill? Erm, no.. Why do people keep bleating on about clean kills and guaranteeing them? Unless your in an abattoir with a captive bolt, then you cant guarantee a clean kill! So how do YOU tick the ethical box? The only way is to leave the gun at home.. I imagine you do as the rest of us here and thats to increase the chances of a clean kill, i know we all do that. As has been said before that shot would have been a kill or miss. A small chance of a wounding, less than if you were trying to shoot it with a shotgun as a moving target. Im not having a ******* contest with either way of thinking, i just cant see how people can argue ethics in a sport which is subject to so many variables.. If you can, PLEASE tell me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewis Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Im surprised this has'nt been locked yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 It's down to *need*. If you *need* to shoot a hare, do you *need* to shoot it at 700 yards? Why not shoot it at 60-80 yards with a HMR which is where all the responsible shooters would if they *needed* to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Im surprised this has'nt been locked yet No mods online plus, it's not turned into a thread of people just having a full on go at each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 (edited) It's down to *need*. If you *need* to shoot a hare, do you *need* to shoot it at 700 yards? Why not shoot it at 60-80 yards with a HMR which is where all the responsible shooters would if they *needed* to. I think it's the *need* to willy wave about a long distance live target shot. Edited October 24, 2010 by Billy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Mate just give up. There's a couple of seriously thick long distance target shooters that think this thread is having a pop at them or questioning their "skillz" and there's one or two that think that there is a serious sport to shooting something that lives and breathes from half a mile away for no reason. Indeed, I still await to understand why there was any *need* to take the shot and just not get nearer. Silly me. Worry not, all the normal people who aren't thick retards, well fortunately they "get it" and like you and me will be reading this thread and shaking their heads and making a mental note of who is a tool and who is not. well it runs and runs. Mugler I'm a game and target shooter. I don't think you're having a go. I see this post as quite simple really,the guys worked up a load,taken a shot, I'm sure if he missed he'd get closer,as I can see a mental problem there if he got through 50 rounds tryin to hit the hare. On the humane respectful dispacth area,can I ask you if uve ever seen a roe deer shot with a .243 ? It makes a mess and I've believed for a long time that its too big for roe. So I put it to you that if that hare was hit anywhere on its body (apart from the ears) even a nip,then hydrostatic shock would have ensured a humane kill? Weather this was on the shooters mind I couldent tell u. Will anyone conceed this hydrostatic point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Could someone confirm what the hold over would be on a .243 shot at that range? I would guess it's somewhere between 10 and 11 feet? Does anyone have the specific number? Does anyone also have the figure (at that range say if there's a 30 mph wind)? I just wanted to know what the variables were, ta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfisherman Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 It's down to *need*. If you *need* to shoot a hare, do you *need* to shoot it at 700 yards? Why not shoot it at 60-80 yards with a HMR which is where all the responsible shooters would if they *needed* to. Yeah, well agree with that. I stalk deer an try to stalk as close as i need to get a clean shot.. I dont bother shooting at rabbits and other quarry with a .22 if i dont think im going to hit it, I do shoot at pigeons and other game birds with a shotgun which are probably on the limit or outside it. Stepping away from this discussion, what i find interesting is what is seen as sporting with one discipline of shooting isnt necessarily so with other disciplines. Im not sure if anyone would openly admit it but do you think 'we' (collectively) respect some of our quarry more than others? Personally i suppose i do. If i take a load of feathers out of a pigeon and it disappears across the horizon, do i try and find it? If i shoot a deer and it runs, of course i look for it, Maybe its not respect that differs from one species to another but maybe its the practicality of a follow up? I KNOW that if my shot placement was near enough with a deer, theres a huge chance of finding it fairly close to where i shot it. That pigeon with a load of feathers removed would be nigh on impossible to find. Sorry, im thinking outloud, this may not be the thread to do it on but it would be good to hear others POVs. I also wonder if this thread would have been received differently if it was a crow/magpie/rabbit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinistercr0c Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 The running man - Hydrostatic shock... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_shock Possible...yes, probable....who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 (edited) Could someone confirm what the hold over would be on a .243 shot at that range? I would guess it's somewhere between 10 and 11 feet? Does anyone have the specific number? Does anyone also have the figure (at that range say if there's a 30 mph wind)? I just wanted to know what the variables were, ta. Approx 111 inches, or 9.25 feet for a similarly weighted bullet. based on a 180 yard zero (I see no problem with this being a normal zero) It says 108 inches if it's 30 mph headwind, but I think I've inputted it wrong. Edited October 24, 2010 by Billy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Did the hare die instantly......well V-Max to chest...you do the maths. Second request...pictures please, I'm still curious to the outcome of the 75 Vmax at 700yds, BJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfisherman Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 (edited) Could someone confirm what the hold over would be on a .243 shot at that range? I would guess it's somewhere between 10 and 11 feet? Does anyone have the specific number? Does anyone also have the figure (at that range say if there's a 30 mph wind)? I just wanted to know what the variables were, ta. Based on a 118yd ZERO - 58gn V Max doing 3300fps MV would be 147'' (20 MOA) in elevation and a 30mph full value wind would give you 242'' (33 MOA) of drift. Obviously the velocity was a bum pluck figure so the figures may not be exact.. Edited October 24, 2010 by flyingfisherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 The running man - Hydrostatic shock... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_shock Possible...yes, probable....who knows? thanks for that link,jeeeez there's a lot to read there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Based on a 118yd ZERO - 58gn V Max doing 3300fps MV would be 147'' (20 MOA) in elevation and a 30mph full value wind would give you 242'' (33 MOA) of drift. Obviously the velocity was a bum pluck figure so the figures may not be exact.. He's not shooting 58grn though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humperdingle Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Anybody bored yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Anybody bored yet? A bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy1 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 (edited) Yes, to be honest. Edited October 24, 2010 by willy1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax55 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Just got back to this thread after a few days away from it. Watch it run and run. If you don't believe me, I dont care. Did I do it Yes I did. Did the hare die instantly......well V-Max to chest...you do the maths. Will I ever post a long range shot on a UK hunting forum.....Never. If you are over 100yds away and you aint in the forum hunting click you are a moron. If you are in the click you are a real top class marksman. I aint some thick stupid chav, I have endeavoured to learn how to shoot over extended ranges and I have managed to pull off a 700yd shot on a hare with homeloaded ammo after only a couple of months making it. I used a Nikon Rangefinder and a .243Win with a 5.5-22 x 56 nightforce scope, exbal doctored drop chart and a wind meter. To be totally honest when moved and I had the wind in my face the shot was easy. Its always a lot harder judging for windage. I will not usually go out if the wind is over 6mph and if the wind is upto 6mph I will not take shots over 300yds. Don't like the shot, so be it. You wont read about another one from me. Will I continue to take SAFE long range shots when they offer themselves. Yes for certain !!! I'm quite sure many of us on here have all taken a long shot at live targets at somepoint in their shooting life havent we?? if not with a rifle then a shotgun. its easy to critisize others for their honesty. ignore these people mate youll never win as you said it is very clicky on here and is filled with people " that know best ". I often take shots at magpies 400yds+ and id consider myself a reasonably experienced shot. sometimes i hit and sometimes i miss but if i didnt take the shot i would never know if i could hit it or not. experience. yeah i could put out a target at that range but then it wouldnt be the same would it. i dont agree with leaving animals to suffer but at the end of the day im out for the kill. this is merely mho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfisherman Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 He's not shooting 58grn though. Billy, i thought the question was being asked to get a feel for the drop and windage, i dont know what his velocity is so its all a bit trivial anyways, but heres the 75gn VMAX based on the same criteria as before. 114''/15.5MOA drop and 163''/22.2MOA windage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 this is quite funny, obviously its posted by a walt but would we say the same had he said rabbit, pigeon or crow etc and the simple answer is probably not. Hares are lovely creatures and yes need controlling at times but this isn't controlling its taking pot shots at them which is as it should be not acceptable to most members. It won't be edible with a .243 hit and would have been a waste. As it didn't happen its pretty irrelevant really, the highlight of what a sausage jockey the person is that in his dream he had to get back in his car and drive the distance to find if he had injured it or not why make that bit up is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie g Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 (edited) I'm quite sure many of us on here have all taken a long shot at live targets at somepoint in their shooting life havent we?? if not with a rifle then a shotgun. its easy to critisize others for their honesty. ignore these people mate youll never win as you said it is very clicky on here and is filled with people " that know best ". I often take shots at magpies 400yds+ and id consider myself a reasonably experienced shot. sometimes i hit and sometimes i miss but if i didnt take the shot i would never know if i could hit it or not. experience. yeah i could put out a target at that range but then it wouldnt be the same would it. i dont agree with leaving animals to suffer but at the end of the day im out for the kill. this is merely mho +1 i agree with the above. we have all done it. i think hat some people forget shooting at rabbits and crows and magpies. with these expanding bullets from a centrefire you miss you miss you hit and the crow or the magpie dies . its not like a air rifle where you shoot a rabbit at a range you really no might be abit to much for that gun. and then you hit it. but its not a clean kill because that pellet is being pushed by a air rifle that isnt up to the job. a 75 grain bullet even at longer distance still gives more then enough ftlb to kill clean. i think the big point on here is its a hare. there was a debate not to long back about shooting deer at long range. some people didnt like it. yet they would shoot foxes at those ranges. why because its a ''fox'' it doesnt matter if its not a clean kill ? if that is what some peoples are thinking then there wrong. no matter what we shoot vermin up to deer it should be as humane as we can. what some people forget it some are better shots then others due to pratice,rifle set up right, reading the wind better etc etc. no matter what we are into on different forums shooting,motorcross...... there are allways others ready to knock it because thats just the way people are Edited October 24, 2010 by jamie g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 What so if anyone disagrees they are just knockers and the forum is too clicky etc? You find me a single shooting authority or text that recommends long range shooting as opposed to closer range shooting and I'll take it all back. Obviously, charging elephants and rhino are excluded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 What so if anyone disagrees they are just knockers and the forum is too clicky etc? You find me a single shooting authority or text that recommends long range shooting as opposed to closer range shooting and I'll take it all back. Obviously, charging elephants and rhino are excluded http://www.longrangehunting.com/lrr/index.php in other words all must conform to ure self rightous code of shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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