Disco Stu Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 Good for them! It's about time the younger generation started rebelling. To be honest they have been totally screwed by society. Anyone over 35 that went to uni and bought a house has had a pretty easy time of it; massive house inflation; full employment; no student loans; limited competition for jobs from immigrants. Besides, I was almost arrested back in 1990 for protesting about the possibility of student loans in Scotland. Luckiliy back then the police gave you a clout, then sent you on your way. +1 I wonder what they will do as the partial pulling up of the ladder by the generations in front of them fully dawns on the teenage / early 20's generation. You think free / goverment subsidised education is only the start. In order for the older generations to be kept in the style they are accustomed to and in order to make good the promises they made to themselves it will be bye bye free NHS, bye bye generous state pension and bye bye free / subsidised care in old age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reedbradshaw Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 A post of pure genius Tea is now all over my laptop i laughed so much! Quality! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 +1 I wonder what they will do as the partial pulling up of the ladder by the generations in front of them fully dawns on the teenage / early 20's generation. You think free / goverment subsidised education is only the start. In order for the older generations to be kept in the style they are accustomed to and in order to make good the promises they made to themselves it will be bye bye free NHS, bye bye generous state pension and bye bye free / subsidised care in old age. Yeah right, 'cos pensioners live the life of Riley don't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 First of all people need to be realistic and realise it was only a couple of hundred causing trouble compared to the thousands who were there peacefully protesting. 9/10 of these people won't have been students, they will have been anarchists just looking to cause trouble. These absolutely rediculous posts calling for student bloodshed because they are actually doing something about their situation is beyond belief. Most of the people who are happily sat behind a keyboard in their offices on a decent salary with a nice house never had to pay tuition fees at all. I want to go to university next year to study rural land management (hardly a soft degree) and the widesweeping accusations that I'm simply going to get in 10's of thousands worth of debt and drink cheap larger with nothing to show at the end of it for the hell of it isn't exactly a strong arguement. The current cap of £3290 on tuition fees would leave me in £8870 worth of debt before I factor in accomodation at around £5000 a year and then the costs of food and day to day living. Obtaining 20k+ worth of debt isn't a decision that is undertaken lightly and having to pay more because of a financial crisis that my generation didn't create is sickening. Especially because the nonces who are implementing it are going to be happily retired at a comparitively young age compared to my generation who will be working well into our mid 60's if not 70's to fund your retirement! But hey, alternatively I could drop out, sit on the dole for all my life, knock out a few kids and make a living that way as at least I won't be facing rediculous debt and the widespread assumption that I am scum because I am trying to make something of my life. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsm1968 Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 +1 I wonder what they will do as the partial pulling up of the ladder by the generations in front of them fully dawns on the teenage / early 20's generation. You think free / goverment subsidised education is only the start. In order for the older generations to be kept in the style they are accustomed to and in order to make good the promises they made to themselves it will be bye bye free NHS, bye bye generous state pension and bye bye free / subsidised care in old age. . Especially because the nonces who are implementing it are going to be happily retired at a comparitively young age compared to my generation who will be working well into our mid 60's if not 70's to fund your retirement! FM I thought the purpose of all the budget cuts and increases was to ensure the younger generation don't inherit the deficit and land up being taxed for years to come to pay it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 Same effect though. Those of us who are trying to make something of our lives just get saddled with debt even further. As for those people who say uni. is a waste of money and to just get a decent apprenticeship, those are very few and far between at the moment... FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 First of all people need to be realistic and realise it was only a couple of hundred causing trouble compared to the thousands who were there peacefully protesting. 9/10 of these people won't have been students, they will have been anarchists just looking to cause trouble. These absolutely rediculous posts calling for student bloodshed because they are actually doing something about their situation is beyond belief. Most of the people who are happily sat behind a keyboard in their offices on a decent salary with a nice house never had to pay tuition fees at all. I want to go to university next year to study rural land management (hardly a soft degree) and the widesweeping accusations that I'm simply going to get in 10's of thousands worth of debt and drink cheap larger with nothing to show at the end of it for the hell of it isn't exactly a strong arguement. The current cap of £3290 on tuition fees would leave me in £8870 worth of debt before I factor in accomodation at around £5000 a year and then the costs of food and day to day living. Obtaining 20k+ worth of debt isn't a decision that is undertaken lightly and having to pay more because of a financial crisis that my generation didn't create is sickening. Especially because the nonces who are implementing it are going to be happily retired at a comparitively young age compared to my generation who will be working well into our mid 60's if not 70's to fund your retirement! But hey, alternatively I could drop out, sit on the dole for all my life, knock out a few kids and make a living that way as at least I won't be facing rediculous debt and the widespread assumption that I am scum because I am trying to make something of my life. FM Ollie, May I suggest remedial maths for a start? 3 years at £3290 is £9870 not £8870. It is quite obvious that you will kick off about the tuition fees, you are the one who has to pay them. And why not, you are the one who will benefit from them. By gaining a degree it should stand you in good stead to get a good job, you will earn more money than if you didn't have one so why shouldn't you pay to obtain it? As I said earlier I have several City and Guilds qualifications, all obtained through higher education and all paid for by myself. I can't remember if I ever smashed up a building or through rocks or fire extinguishers at Police over it. In the real scheme of things a 20 grand debt is sweet FA compared to the other debts you will have in your life. And as you have said you have the option not to go to university and become a parasite on society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 Students....the great unwashed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 Same effect though. Those of us who are trying to make something of our lives just get saddled with debt even further. As for those people who say uni. is a waste of money and to just get a decent apprenticeship, those are very few and far between at the moment... FM I have made something of my life too, mostly through hardwork and if needed further education for which I stuck my hand in my pocket and paid up. Why do you think you should be any different? Education up to the age of 16 is compulsory and as such should be paid for by the state. after that it is an option and if you want to take the option then you have to pay for it. As my Dad said to me years ago, "Welcome to the first day of the rest of your life" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horrocks Posted November 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 (edited) Ollie, May I suggest remedial maths for a start? 3 years at £3290 is £9870 not £8870. It is quite obvious that you will kick off about the tuition fees, you are the one who has to pay them. And why not, you are the one who will benefit from them. By gaining a degree it should stand you in good stead to get a good job, you will earn more money than if you didn't have one so why shouldn't you pay to obtain it? As I said earlier I have several City and Guilds qualifications, all obtained through higher education and all paid for by myself. I can't remember if I ever smashed up a building or through rocks or fire extinguishers at Police over it. In the real scheme of things a 20 grand debt is sweet FA compared to the other debts you will have in your life. And as you have said you have the option not to go to university and become a parasite on society. I agree MC. ferretmaster, rural land management may not be a easy degree, but it sure as hell isn't a tough one either, and at the end of it you'll have the possibility of a sweet job at some agents like strutt and parker, earning a good salary with a good lifestyle at the end of it. I wish I'd opted for a degree like that, thats more than worth the debt both of us will be getting in. Its not easy, through bad money management and my own stupidity i owe the university a bomb from last year, my bank account is maxxed and the loan hasn't come in yet, the uni and the taxpayer will get that money out of me, but its for my gain and i understand that. I've just had my girlfriend on the phone in tears because of money (london uni). Its not an easy clear cut arguement. People do seem to forget though, that the taxpayer subsidises both the uni's and the students, withdrawing that support from the uni's just means that the Taxpayer will have to forward greater loans to the students. Oh, and Ferretmaster, i agree with the apprenticeships comment, thats for the government to sort out, but at least we'd be standing on our own two feet. also, you WILL be drinking a huge amount of cheap booze, lager, vinegary wine from SA, crappy vodka that smells like acetone, i'll eat my hat if you aren't totally pie-eyed come this time next year Edited November 11, 2010 by Horrocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 (edited) I thought the purpose of all the budget cuts and increases was to ensure the younger generation don't inherit the deficit and land up being taxed for years to come to pay it off. The deficit will probably never be eliminated only the size at which it increases MAY slow down. The debt will never be paid off, however due to the sheer size of the true debt the servicing of the debt could and probably will mean that the younger generation are lumbered with higher direct and indirect taxes accompanied with reduced / worse public services. Especially if interest rates need to be raised. However the current game of taking ever more money from new entrants the scheme in order to fulfill the promises previously made will imho eventually have to either end or be vastly restructured. Just ask Bernard Madoff. The cuts are imho token gestures to try and keep our creditors sweet and try to ensure they are happy to keep lending to the government at manageable rates. Edited November 11, 2010 by Disco Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 Yeah right, 'cos pensioners live the life of Riley don't they? The vast majority do compared to the latter years their parents and grandparents lived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobt Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 Students in London protesting about higher tuition fees are complaining of police brutality and heavy tactics being used in order for them to disperse. Police are believed to have used shower gel and job adverts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 The vast majority do compared to the latter years their parents and grandparents lived. You're talking out of your **** fella. I'm sure my grandparents had a better time than their grandparents but it doesn't mean they had it easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 First of all people need to be realistic and realise it was only a couple of hundred causing trouble compared to the thousands who were there peacefully protesting. 9/10 of these people won't have been students, they will have been anarchists just looking to cause trouble. These absolutely rediculous posts calling for student bloodshed because they are actually doing something about their situation is beyond belief. Most of the people who are happily sat behind a keyboard in their offices on a decent salary with a nice house never had to pay tuition fees at all. I want to go to university next year to study rural land management (hardly a soft degree) and the widesweeping accusations that I'm simply going to get in 10's of thousands worth of debt and drink cheap larger with nothing to show at the end of it for the hell of it isn't exactly a strong arguement. The current cap of £3290 on tuition fees would leave me in £8870 worth of debt before I factor in accomodation at around £5000 a year and then the costs of food and day to day living. Obtaining 20k+ worth of debt isn't a decision that is undertaken lightly and having to pay more because of a financial crisis that my generation didn't create is sickening. Especially because the nonces who are implementing it are going to be happily retired at a comparitively young age compared to my generation who will be working well into our mid 60's if not 70's to fund your retirement! But hey, alternatively I could drop out, sit on the dole for all my life, knock out a few kids and make a living that way as at least I won't be facing rediculous debt and the widespread assumption that I am scum because I am trying to make something of my life. FM Good post FM I totally agree with you...Personally I think secondary education should be free with University places being limited to the students with the best qualifications. The A level should be reviewed and made more challenging ( to be honest my daughters A level Physics & Chemistry Papers were a doddle compared to the ones I took in the 70,s)Universities should be funded by Central Government and bid for their annual allocation based on performance. This might buck some of the teaching staff up a bit as well as many of them have become complacent and are as much wasters as some of the students. This would ensure that only the elite gain University entrance, those who are prepared to work hard and contribute something tangiable to society when they emerge with their degree. Under the current system You will always have the Hardcore Millitant fraction at University, generally they go on to enter politics and become members of parliament. Its so easy to just throw the mantle of "Useless Spongeing Students" over the lot of them when they do have cause to revolt like this, but this label is unjustified and generally handed out by ignorance and a lack of understanding by people who probably dont have sufficient education to go to University in the first instance and are consumed by some latent envy. I think we should all get used to more and escalating civil unrest and the possibility of more diverse Millitant Action when these folly cuts by Government start biting in 2011. I personally believe that no one really knows the extent of unemployment and misery these cuts will cause and it will be significantly more than government estimates. A major face in the British Fiscal system stayed at my inlaws cottage a few weeks back for a week end break ( and I mean a guy right at the top of the money tree, advisor to Government over the last 30 years ) He reckons that 2011 will see the onset of not only a d d recession but possibly even a meltdown of some of the countries biggest companies, with crime rates soaring and Civil protest similar to the miners strikes. Oh well at least we have something to look forward to on the box next year apart from another series of the bloody x factor. leave the University Students alone..At least they are trying to make something of their lives and show a bit of ambition. FM. Stroud Gloucestershire, reading Environmental Studies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMungo Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 you go to uni, you pay the fees...scary thought i know! I spent my time at uni studying aerospace engineering, so it wasnt your mickey mouse 2 day a week media studies degree :blink: i had to work 4 night shifts a week as well as studying to keep my head above water, but i managed it! You have to make sacrifices for the things you want in life. Im now in the RAF not using my degree, and paying my student loan off...the problem im facing is due to my meagre wage ( :yp: ) my monthly payments hardly cover the interest! My mrs is off work as we have a new baby so money is tight, and could really do without the repayments... Now for the point of my post...was i in london smashing the place up? No, iv got my head down, earning money to pay my way through life...**** happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelhall Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Why dont students study 5 days a week 11 months a year do the deegre in 18 months = half the debt.All pensioners arnt on public sector final salery pensions,and life wasnt all that great after the war. rant over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inshallah Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 I think it was Tony Blair who messed the system up. Although not a popular point but not everyone is suited for academic study. Some people would be much better off at a vocational type institution were they could learn a skill/trade etc. Too many people go through uni doing a tin pot degree and then wonder why they can't get a job at the end. At the point where Labour said ok we want everyone to go to uni they screwed it up for everyone. They devalued degrees, caused fees to be introduced because the old budgets could not longer cope with the increased numbers and encouraged more micky mouse courses to be introduced for those not as academically capable, as a result money was lost from more traditional subject areas as they became less popular this caused departments to close (as was the case with chemistry and music at Exeter). Hit the nail on the head. Totally agree. It was also partly the fault of the last tory gvmt. who initiated the conversion of polytechnics to universities. This was really just a back-door semi-privatisation. Rather than having local authorities give a sum of money to provide high quality local higher education, the new rules were to give an amount of money for each student you attract, and the new institutions could award your own degrees, and let market forces decide what's best to teach. At the poly I went to, student numbers went from 9000 to 30000 in a couple of years (tax bill more than tripled), the physics department closed and was replaced by thousands of business studies students. The new degrees were of such poor quality to make them worthless. The new 'university' must have made a killing from taxpayers money handing out garbage. Brilliant business model 'though. No laboratories to fund, just 800 people per class and rubber stamp a bit of paper. I think HE should be free and with a grant to those who are studying useful subjects (maths, science) and are academically at the top. A degree would mean you were academically in the top 5% like it used to. The rest can get a job, do an apprenticeship, or do a vocational course somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 You're talking out of your **** fella. I'm sure my grandparents had a better time than their grandparents but it doesn't mean they had it easy! Your talking out of your ****. Todays pensioners live in a nation that provides them with free healthcare, puts a roof over their head, food on their table, free money in their bank account. Free or subsidised dental care and optical care, free bus passes, free libraries. The very lucky ones might even have a private final salary pension, savings, investments and thousands of equity in property. Sounds like the life of Riley to me compared to what was the norm before and what I expect will be the norm if todays students live long enough to be able to retire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Your talking out of your ****. Todays pensioners live in a nation that provides them with free healthcare, puts a roof over their head, food on their table, free money in their bank account. Free or subsidised dental care and optical care, free bus passes, free libraries. The very lucky ones might even have a private final salary pension, savings, investments and thousands of equity in property. Sounds like the life of Riley to me compared to what was the norm before and what I expect will be the norm if todays students live long enough to be able to retire. Congratulations on posting what is possibly the most ignorant post I've ever read on here (and that's saying something). Let's just hope you never make it to old age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Let's just hope you never make it to old age. with an attitude like his he wont! KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC45 Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Your talking out of your ****. Todays pensioners live in a nation that provides them with free healthcare, puts a roof over their head, food on their table, free money in their bank account. Free or subsidised dental care and optical care, free bus passes, free libraries. The very lucky ones might even have a private final salary pension, savings, investments and thousands of equity in property. Sounds like the life of Riley to me compared to what was the norm before and what I expect will be the norm if todays students live long enough to be able to retire. unbelievable TOSH!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksaplenty Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Demographics. Demographics. Demographics. Todays students are tomorrows bonded labourers, the age structure looks like an inverted pyramid. Someone has to pay for the 'promised' pensions. My advice to anyone under 35 is get out now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BountyHunter Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Well you probably know me then, do you hire during the summer or easter? I've worked as one of the boat boys there for the last three years and spend what isn't term time living in Helford, best job I think i'll ever have. H. Are you the chap with the VW Beetle? We didn't hire this season but will probably have bumped into you previously. What a small world! Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 +1 I wonder what they will do as the partial pulling up of the ladder by the generations in front of them fully dawns on the teenage / early 20's generation. You think free / goverment subsidised education is only the start. In order for the older generations to be kept in the style they are accustomed to and in order to make good the promises they made to themselves it will be bye bye free NHS, bye bye generous state pension and bye bye free / subsidised care in old age. I don't think it's the teenage / early 20s generation who are the only ones to suffer. As someone in their mid to late thirties I expect to receive no state pension as I am well enough paid to support my family. Means testing is sure to come in for the state pension for everyone. Retirement ages for everyone are going up, expect 70 soon. I receive no personal tax allowance anymore. I give almost half my earnings to the Government. When my father spoke to the pensions actuary at his work he said people retiring at 65 were expected to live around 8 years. Now it's 20+. I heard on the radio that the 20 something generation would have a fair proportion of people reaching 100. Someone has to pay for it. As for the older generation kept in the style they've been accustomed to? Is this a joke? The average pensioners annuity is about £27k, that's the total pot and will produce about £1000 a year pension on top of the basic state pension. A lot don't even have that. NHS medical care is a basic non luxury service. I wouldn't put a dog in a state care home. If you're going to live a long period after retirement, expect the state to pay and have a shrinking tax base you don't have to be Einstein to see the numbers just don't add up. As others have said keep the universities for the intelligent (alas I wouldn't have gone!) and put everyone else on vocational courses or you pay for uni. The states numbers just don't add up and I don't think students are going to be the only ones affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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