Spaniel and hares !! Can you stop em!

[utectok]

Hi my cocker is a great wee dog but she will chase hares over a long distance completely ignoring commands whistles! I'm not sure how she does on rabbits as we don't have many here. I can walk out to an island at low tide that is alive with rabbits for some training on ground game but don't want to do this till I have got some plan of action and or training in place! My mate says it a spaniel trait and accepts it but I'd be reluctant to shoot ground game with my dog only a couple of feet behind. Any tips?? Cheers Will

Edited November 20, 2010 by utectok

[pegleg31]

when she comes back what do you do?

 

 

 

be prepared to give her a firm telling off and put her straight away!.how is she away from game on the whistle,is she 100%?

[utectok]

Pretty good on the whistle will stop take hand signals etc. I took her to the place she bolted the hare and shook her by the scruff. Trouble is also the missus takes the dogs out too and she let's them run about? Im worried if I punish her hard she will think it's for returning not running off?

[beltabout]

she will!

 

When she comes back you have to bite the bullet.

 

Best thing to try is to catch in the act and scruff her to where you blew the stop whistle and blow it again.

 

If after a few times at this she still chases you could consider a training lead (30 metre) and as you blow the stop put your foot on it but be carful so as not to injure her.

 

Where are you a helping hand is useful as is a rabbit pen.

[t jack]

Will, blow the stop whistle as soon as the hare rises, followed by a stern shout of "no" and as you shout this run at her with your hand raised high in the air for the hup command, ive shot numerous rabbits over this dog and only had a small amount of run ins, its no good scruffing her when she comes back as she thinks this is her getting told off for coming back, you need to get out there after the dog and tell it off for the offence its commiting, not after the event, PS your wife will need to walk the dog where there is no game until you have this sorted out, its no point you stopping her doing it if she can then do it with your wife, also the presance of another dog will only encourage her to chase.......call me if you need anymore advice.

[chris o]

mine has tryed running in once. i sorted it out very easy. he doesnt work to far he works realy nice and tight near to me he put a pheasant up and as it got a bit further away he thought of chasing.

i could read what he was intnding to do by his body language i blew the whistle for stop and he started i went after him falling 3 times and gave him a good shout and a clip round the ear not littraly though i tug on his ear and blow the stop whistle right next to him and he has not done it since. but i expected him to do it especially his first time out but then again he is 17 month old. hope you get it sorted.

[fortune82]

I had this exact problem. I tried all sorts including several trips to a pro trainer. In the end one thing cured it in about 15 minutes flat. An E-coallr. A lot of people disagree with them but my dog was un-workable because he would bolt after hares and rabbits.

 

I can now use him with total confidence without the collar.

[Elby]

when she comes back what do you do?

 

 

 

be prepared to give her a firm telling off and put her straight away!.how is she away from game on the whistle,is she 100%?

Give here a telling off for coming back?

Back to basics for the dog, get it absolutely spot on to the drop whistle.

[henry d]

My mate says it a spaniel trait and accepts it ..........

 

Rubbish, again go back to basics and only reprimand when the dog isn`t responding, it`s too late when the dog returns, so just forget it when they get back to you It will be hard, but so be it.

[henry d]

I had this exact problem. I tried all sorts including several trips to a pro trainer. In the end one thing cured it in about 15 minutes flat. An E-coallr. A lot of people disagree with them but my dog was un-workable because he would bolt after hares and rabbits.

 

I can now use him with total confidence without the collar.

 

Doesn`t always work, we have a guy whose dog (a lab) will run down deer if the collar isn`t on but is the paragon of virtue with it on.

[fortune82]

Doesn`t always work, we have a guy whose dog (a lab) will run down deer if the collar isn`t on but is the paragon of virtue with it on.

 

He obviously hasnt been using it properly. The dog should wear the collar without it being used for days at a time. I would guess he has only been putting it on when taking the dog out to work or train.

 

I used to work my dog (in a situation I knew no rabbits or hares would appear) with the collar on but not turned on to avoid exactly the situation your mate is in. The dog should not associate the collar with the shock.

[beltabout]

I've never had to use a electric collar, iMO if you can't train the dog without you shouldn't try to with.

 

If you have missed the training with the whistle and got it wrong, why will you get it right with the collar. To my mind this is a step back to dog breaking.

 

If the dog hasn't got it go back to what he can do practice this and move on slowly.

[utectok]

Thanks for all your help. I'm learning too so I'm not blaming the dog she learns quick and is eager to please. I'm going to keep working on the stop command and get her really steady on that, then take her to rabbit island and give it a go though it sounds like she is pretty steady on rabbits but it will still be good I guess. I don't actually shoot hares but it is embarrassing to have an out of control dog if we come across a hare on my syndicate!! My mates dog disappeared when a hare pitched up!! He was using two whistles a thunderer for stop is this better?? Cheers Will

[beltabout]

I only use the one whistle, but many people swear by the thunderer as a stop whistle, it also is more harsh when blowing it near the dog to remind it to stop.

[UKPoacher]

One of the old lads on our beating line has this problem. Yesterday his dog put up and chased a hare on the first drive and I had chance to see the whole performance. Firstly he didn't get a decent stop command in and then when the dogcame back hel rollocked it. Both contribute to the ongoing problem.

 

The stop whistle isn't always going to stop the dog in these situations. A loud gutteral "NO!!" or my preference is "HEEEEEEL!!" (it really needs to be delivered as a growl), works better than the whistle in these situations. Another trick is to try and break the dogs concentration. Yesterday a beater with an identical problem was next to me on the line and I managed to stop his dog by shouting at it and waving my stick as it passed in front of me. Totally broke its concentration and it returned to the handler. If you can get someone to walk in front, to one side as you go on 'rabbit island' and get them to confront the dog as soon as it ignores the stop command.

 

As above though, if you do not praise the dog for returning it will be reluctant to do so.

[fortune82]

I've never had to use a electric collar, iMO if you can't train the dog without you shouldn't try to with.

 

If you have missed the training with the whistle and got it wrong, why will you get it right with the collar. To my mind this is a step back to dog breaking.

 

If the dog hasn't got it go back to what he can do practice this and move on slowly.

 

Well in that case my dog would never be worked. Months of stop whistle training, visits to a pro trainer and then a spell with him were all for nothing whenever a hare, rabbit or cat appeared.

 

15 minutes, 2 hares, 2 zaps on a medium setting and the problem is well and truly solved!

 

As far as I am concerned the tingle, and thats all it is, breaks the dogs concentration allowing it to obey your command.

Edited November 21, 2010 by fortune82

[al4x]

I cured my GWP with a collar so in theory I shouldn't be training but hey worked in my situation and they aren't all about the shock mine reponds perfectly with the beep. They let you get at the dog exactly when you need to so the moment they ignore the command and often give you that F you look you can act on it and actually stop them. In my case it was essential as it was either that or keep her permanently on the lead or run the risk of being run over. Used correctly it just acts the same as a long lead and I hear all the time people saying but they know when the collar is on yet they use long leads which they also know exactly when they are on.

I've also witnessed how some very experienced trainers and keepers cure it and personally I'm not into beating the **** out of my dog.

[fortune82]

I cured my GWP with a collar so in theory I shouldn't be training but hey worked in my situation and they aren't all about the shock mine reponds perfectly with the beep. They let you get at the dog exactly when you need to so the moment they ignore the command and often give you that F you look you can act on it and actually stop them. In my case it was essential as it was either that or keep her permanently on the lead or run the risk of being run over. Used correctly it just acts the same as a long lead and I hear all the time people saying but they know when the collar is on yet they use long leads which they also know exactly when they are on.

I've also witnessed how some very experienced trainers and keepers cure it and personally I'm not into beating the **** out of my dog.

 

Well put. The advice given to me by 2 professional trainers was exactly that. Beat the **** out the dog every time it does something wrong! I have put the collar on my own neck and turned it up full. I would rather have that than a kick in the ribs, yank on my ear or be picked up 6 foot in the air by the scruff and dropped.

 

The thing is all these methods are "traditional" and no where near as cruel as an e-collar!

Edited November 21, 2010 by fortune82

[beltabout]

cured my GWP with a collar so in theory I shouldn't be training but hey worked in my situation and they aren't all about the shock mine reponds perfectly with the beep. They let you get at the dog exactly when you need to so the moment they ignore the command and often give you that F you look you can act on it and actually stop them.

 

You make my point quite well probably better than I did. The fact that the dog now responds to the beep means that it would have in the right circumstances responded to the whistle.

 

The fact that it got to the collar stage means IMO that you never took your training back far enough, I bet that you could with time and consistency replace the beep with the stop whistle which also breaks the concentration and gives a command at the same time.

 

I am a firm believer that if you take the far enough back and the dog can learn it does not need to be shocked.

 

15 minutes, 2 hares, 2 zaps on a medium setting and the problem is well and truly solved!

Shows the dog has learn't the lesson, so he can learn you have just used a different method to mr

Edited November 21, 2010 by beltabout

[fortune82]

You make my point quite well probably better than I did. The fact that the dog now responds to the beep means that it would have in the right circumstances responded to the whistle.

 

The fact that it got to the collar stage means IMO that you never took your training back far enough, I bet that you could with time and consistency replace the beep with the stop whistle which also breaks the concentration and gives a command at the same time.

 

I am a firm believer that if you take the far enough back and the dog can learn it does not need to be shocked.

 

 

Shows the dog has learn't the lesson, so he can learn you have just used a different method to mr

 

Exactly - the dog has learned the lesson using a different method. A method which I personally consider to be more humane than physical violence, the method recommended by 2 professional trainers. Violence is also a method I see used on shoots and trial events on a regular basis.

[beltabout]

A method which I personally consider to be more humane than physical violence, the method recommended by 2 professional trainers. Violence is also a method I see used on shoots and trial events on a regular basis.

 

I would grab the dog by the scruff of the neck and take it back to the point where it ignored the command, I have and never would never advocate physical violence.

[al4x]

You make my point quite well probably better than I did. The fact that the dog now responds to the beep means that it would have in the right circumstances responded to the whistle.

 

The fact that it got to the collar stage means IMO that you never took your training back far enough, I bet that you could with time and consistency replace the beep with the stop whistle which also breaks the concentration and gives a command at the same time.

 

I am a firm believer that if you take the far enough back and the dog can learn it does not need to be shocked.

 

 

Shows the dog has learn't the lesson, so he can learn you have just used a different method to mr

 

 

maybe but the simple fact is the beep was only used at the point the whistle was being ignored, then if that was ignored then a minor shock used. I think with some dogs they are a life saver as certainly where I am a dog that bolts on game will end up on a road. I could have kept her on a lead and avoided problem areas but that isn't to me training, I use it like a long lead and it is a very effective one as they cannot get away from it. With a half intelligent dog you hardly ever actually need to use it and what you find is you will need it for the first few days then slowly they will stop bolting and start listening more and you just keep going till you just don't need it. In the meantime if you have a real problem it is there. With decent use they are very useful and certainly with a headstrong dog with a very strong hunting instinct like mine it gives you a lot of help, and is non confrontational with the dog which with a sensitive breed helps a lot.

[butcherboy]

My mate says it a spaniel trait and accepts it

 

 

Get a new mate

 

Go and do a session or 2 in a rabbit pen with a trainer.

[UKPoacher]

I've never understood the purpose of taking a dog back to where it 'misbehaved' and disciplining it

 

Dog's live for the moment not what happened two minutes ago. Get the disclipline in straight away or praise it when it eventually comes back and work on your training later.