SNAKEBITE Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 It's going to be very hard to implement. There are so many potential pit falls. I WANT to be enthusiastic but at the same time you have to be REALISTIC and at the moment it don't look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 is there no lads from the nppc on the forum, they have first hand knowledge of farms that are shot over regular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Taking the dating agency idea forward- how about if this was held in a secure section of the BASC web site that only BASC members could access. If you wanted to take somone shooting with you- you would put your 'advert' in the relevent section - listing the type of shooting, how to contact you, other requirements etc. The BASC member would then contact you- and make final arangements. Accepting that some people have already made it clear that they would not take out anyone they did not know- and fair play to you- it's your free chice of course- for those that would, could this type of system work? David Now you have hit the nail on the head David. That way seems sensible. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 One point that should be remembered is that the farmer may not want certain things shot. My farmer likes to see pheasants and the occasional redlegs that seem to frequent the area around the barns. I am only allowed to shoot vermin, but over the last couple of years the game has most definitely started to disappear. The farmer has raised this point with me and I have assured him that I am not shooting it, but we both know that someone is. I share my shoot with two other Guns and I know that one of them started to bring one of his mates onto the land a couple of years ago. I have seen him on the land on his own a couple of times and have asked him where the authorised shooter is only to have some excuse about him not being able to come on that day. It was quite obvious that he was using the farm for his own shooting and had no permission other that his friends. I had a word about this with the farmer and he was able to talk to the other Guns about taking friends without his permission. This caused a little bit of friction to start with, but it had become clear that this shooter was shooting game because he thought that he could, because he had a Game Licence. :< It was only because I have a pretty good repartee with the farmer that I was able to keep my little shoot, had it been otherwise I could have lost it due to people bringing others onto the land. I sometimes feel that BASC are looking to make money out of these little shoots by setting up schemes that would allow these little syndicates to share a shoot, but at a cost to everyone who uses them. I already share my little shoot with two other guns, and there is no way that I would want to see half a dozen strangers walking about shooting everything in sight. Eventually someone would start to abuse the system and I could lose everything. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Taking the dating agency idea forward- how about if this was held in a secure section of the BASC web site that only BASC members could access. If you wanted to take somone shooting with you- you would put your 'advert' in the relevent section - listing the type of shooting, how to contact you, other requirements etc. The BASC member would then contact you- and make final arangements. Accepting that some people have already made it clear that they would not take out anyone they did not know- and fair play to you- it's your free chice of course- for those that would, could this type of system work? David the idea is good, however i feel alot of members would like to be the benefactor but not the person who had to offer his hard earned shooting permission with another gun. i have cycled bloody miles this week in search of some shooting more locally to me (contradiction of terms there ) and have got a few maybe's. if any of these work out i am affraid that apart from close friends (some of which are on here) i will not be letting a soul onto the land. there are far too many shooters whom have no respect for the sport/land/animals, and would ruin my sport for me. too many times have i had my sport ruined by other shooters, poachers with dogs or kids with airguns/pistols. i really do wish you the best of luck with this, but unless every shooter had to offer the use of one piece of land in return for the details......i very much doubt you would get anyone wanting to offer their hard earned permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 sorry David i think we have our wires crossed. rather than several organizations i think we would be better of with just the one,one that would encumber every type of field sport, with a compulsory membership fee that is affordable from a 16 year old. to a pensioner. with various types of insurance cover for your given sport.a union if you like of every type of sporting event and its off shoots. run as a non profit making organization open to sporting goods sales people , farmers, butchers, anyone and everyone to give it enough support that people have to listen. i also think like you that there is to many smaller groups, each taking a little from shooters,but not having a loud enough voice to be heard. The home office guidance to police.is a shambles,some constabulary's dont even read it. i know all about what the basc does for its members regarding this matter. but any organization going head to head with the home office on this subject would get my money. we could go on for pages and pages discussing this subject.but i think what is needed is more shooters asking there chosen Representatives exaclly what they are doing for everyone not just the chosen few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remmy1100 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 I shoot over 18 various farm in my area some have several other shooters but i have never met anyone when i have been out( just came across there mess empty shells,dead birds left lying on the field),the farmers around here tend to give permission easily, knowing that out of four shooters one might at least visit weekly some shooters,shoot one day never to return,so a farmer thinks that if he was to give sole permission and that person worked all week then the vermin has free range all week serious damage can be caused in that time.I visit every farm at least once a week ,some on my journey to/from work i shoot a few rabbits then off to work,this gives me a very good standing with farmers and has gained me more permission via praise to other farmers,and when theres flocks hitting hard my number is called knowing ill be there first chance i get.but some people do spoil it for all by leaving damage mess ect,I have no problem sharing a permission but i do object to picking up other peoples ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbd1 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 As already stated i would be happy with a dating agency format but would only be willing to take a new person out 3 or 4 times a year, I would have a slight concern with the safety element of taking someone new out and would be interested in your ideas on how BASC will help insure that guns are aware of the safety issues. I personally had to carry a gun on a rough shot for a whole year before being allowed to shoot, how many kids have to do that these days? Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Pieman Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) Have I missed the point? Farmers charging for pest control? ALL landowners have a statutory duty (imposed by varous pieces of legislation) to control their rabbit populations. This would imply you should have a database for farmers telling them who would shoot for them free of charge. Pigeons are different as they don't need to be controlled for any purpose than crop damage - no statutory duty. I shoot rabbits over 6000 acres of farmland, usually requiring me to go out twice a week lamping and then ferreting during the winter etc. If I can't go, I ask very close friends to go for me - I once took a 'good bloke' that then tried to steal my shooting rights!! From a moral point of view - touched on earlier in the thread - what about acceptability of shooting. I shoot rabbits to control their numbers to prevent damage. That means I shoot every one I see - big, medium and small. I don't believe in leaving some for the 'next harvest' and my farmers would be furious if I did. How would I convince someone that we don't just shoot the big ones? PP Edited February 17, 2006 by Mr Pieman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Hi MrP. concern is these 'clubs' may have 250-300 acres, not all going to be farmland anyway, and if say 6 people are sharing it, all wanting to shoot the rabbits lamping ferreting etc... the rabbit population will very quickly be gone. Good thing for farmer obviously, but everyone in the club who wants to shoot won't be able to. I don't think clubs really work unless birds are being put down, you can then run a quota. With woodies they're unpredictable so would be impossible/unfair. Are you going to ask someone to leave a 'magic' day because they shot 15 woodies or whatever. With rabbits its a case of who gets there first. IMO. If you have too many guns on a shoot you will overshoot the rabbits and pigeons to the extent that it won't be worth shooting- the members will lose interest, it's not sustainable. In time things will come back and maybe one or two of the luckier members will keep it up, the rest are likely to move onto other things being bored. I don't think this is very good for shooting and you're back to the situation of one or two people shooting the land- so why bother. All in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Taking the dating agency idea forward- how about if this was held in a secure section of the BASC web site that only BASC members could access. If you wanted to take somone shooting with you- you would put your 'advert' in the relevent section - listing the type of shooting, how to contact you, other requirements etc. The BASC member would then contact you- and make final arangements. Accepting that some people have already made it clear that they would not take out anyone they did not know- and fair play to you- it's your free chice of course- for those that would, could this type of system work? David the idea is good, however i feel alot of members would like to be the benefactor but not the person who had to offer his hard earned shooting permission with another gun. i have cycled bloody miles this week in search of some shooting more locally to me (contradiction of terms there ) and have got a few maybe's. if any of these work out i am affraid that apart from close friends (some of which are on here) i will not be letting a soul onto the land. there are far too many shooters whom have no respect for the sport/land/animals, and would ruin my sport for me. too many times have i had my sport ruined by other shooters, poachers with dogs or kids with airguns/pistols. i really do wish you the best of luck with this, but unless every shooter had to offer the use of one piece of land in return for the details......i very much doubt you would get anyone wanting to offer their hard earned permission. This lad has done the miles and has got very little to show for it If I was a farmer, I would let this lad on, based on hs general country awareness, trying again when others wouldn't, and his appearance. But I am a genuine **** LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Have I missed the point? Farmers charging for pest control? ALL landowners have a statutory duty (imposed by varous pieces of legislation) to control their rabbit populations. This would imply you should have a database for farmers telling them who would shoot for them free of charge. Pigeons are different as they don't need to be controlled for any purpose than crop damage - no statutory duty. I shoot rabbits over 6000 acres of farmland, usually requiring me to go out twice a week lamping and then ferreting during the winter etc. If I can't go, I ask very close friends to go for me - I once took a 'good bloke' that then tried to steal my shooting rights!! From a moral point of view - touched on earlier in the thread - what about acceptability of shooting. I shoot rabbits to control their numbers to prevent damage. That means I shoot every one I see - big, medium and small. I don't believe in leaving some for the 'next harvest' and my farmers would be furious if I did. How would I convince someone that we don't just shoot the big ones? PP Pieman, thats just *****, I agree with 90% of what you are saying but the rest is only applicable to 'payable shooters" aint it? Feel free to correct me. Friday night, going out with the chaps, pubs closed, 340 acre's at our disposal and they aren't happy :< It's free to them Some bods you cant please LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Pieman Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 LB can you explain which 10% you think is applicable to paying folk? PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kenny Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 I think it's a good idea as we have all been in the position of having no land (not for the want of trying) The land I shoot I got from a pal who shoot's it .He is moving soon and my work will be taking me out of the country for a couple of months at a time. I feel that as the farmer was kind enough to let me shoot his land the least I can do is to make sure that someone is taking care of the pigeon's for him once I'm happy that they will treat the land with the same respect I do I will take them to the farmer and I would like to think that he will return the favoure if he has or get's more land We have to look after each other to make sure our sport dose'nt fall on it's a*s* When the tree hugger's start on us the more people shooting the stronger we will be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted February 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Dear All, A fantastic thread with lots of good genuine comments, thank you very much for that. I think the way forward from BASC's point of view is as follows: 1. Continue to develop shooting opportunities via our existing clubs and syndicates. 2. Continue to offer opportunities via our wildfowling permit scheme and our deer stalking scheme. 3. Continue to advertise in the farming press to encourage farmers to be welcoming to shooters. 4. Encourage farmers to allow pigeon and rabbit shooting over their land and not just the game shooting. 5. Encourage new shooters to get shooting experience in clay grounds / airgun clubs etc before even thinking of going live quarry shooting. 6. Produce written guidance on finding and securing shooting.To include a giide for the shooter to use, as well as some form of introductory package that the shooter can give to the landowner including: Who you are- contact details Details of your insurance cover Confirmation of codes of practice / conduct that you agree to stick to Details of what you agree to do in return for the shooting This to be made available by BASC in hard copy free of charge to members 7. Continue to offer help and advice to existing members who wish to form a club. 8. Further review the shooting to let / shooting wanted on the BASC web site. Thanks for all your input Best wishes David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Thanks for the input,I think that there should be one proviso in 6,that the hard copy should only be presented with the persons valid membership card. I know of one person who has a BASC sticker in his motor and says to landowners he`s a member and isn`t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted February 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Thanks for that. We could make it available in pdf / printable format in the 'members only' section of the BASC web site- that only current members can access. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Mmm, and it would also mean that anyone who wanted to be part of the scheme would also have to join BASC………..which is really what this is all about isn’t it David. Sorry mate but I don’t think that this is ******-all to do with finding shooting for people, but more to do with increasing BASC membership. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Mmmmmm Gemini, you old cynic you. If anyone wants to comment further on the BASC, or develop Gemini's comment, please start another thread. This one has covered too many pages to be diverted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Mmmmmm Gemini, you old cynic you. Old ----------------------- Definitely Cynic -------------------- Apprenticed and getting there BASC member --------- More chance of getting **** out of a rocking horse You stick to your morals Graham. Principles can wait Dave (BASC member by the way - just a rich ***) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 ****e? ****? somethings gonna work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Yes Mr P From a moral point of view - touched on earlier in the thread - what about acceptability of shooting. I shoot rabbits to control their numbers to prevent damage. That means I shoot every one I see - big, medium and small. I don't believe in leaving some for the 'next harvest' No way do you shoot every one that you are asked to! I know you are good, I have seen your posts in the past of big scuts bags in one evening but it's the paying shooters that will be able to, or liable to clean out areas of pests as they will be on a mission and they have paid for it. I have a small permission that has rabs in the gardens causing untold damage, I visit it regularly, but I would never dream of trying to eradicate them all. Not just because the owner wants them gone but because I want to keep hunting up and they deserve to survive and keep me and others busy. I also know of some shoots that have people paying for the rights, they completely culled everything to such an extent that no one is ***** to go there anymore and he can no longer get any revenue over once productive land That is a loss to us all. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Pieman Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 LB, I think you missed the point about shooting them all. An earlier post made reference to controlling what was taken by shooters. I was making the point that I shoot all sizes, not just the big ones. Some people don't shoot the starters - I do. If shooting for pest control my belief is that this is the correct option. I also firmly believe I could NEVER eradicate the rabbits on my permission, no matter how hard I try. My farmers like to see what I shoot, and a selection of sizes gives them the belief (rightly or wrongly) that I'm not trying to selectively cull their bunnies Hope that makes things a bit clearer PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 LB, I think you missed the point about shooting them all. An earlier post made reference to controlling what was taken by shooters. I was making the point that I shoot all sizes, not just the big ones. Some people don't shoot the starters - I do. If shooting for pest control my belief is that this is the correct option. I also firmly believe I could NEVER eradicate the rabbits on my permission, no matter how hard I try. My farmers like to see what I shoot, and a selection of sizes gives them the belief (rightly or wrongly) that I'm not trying to selectively cull their bunnies Hope that makes things a bit clearer PP Yes it does Mr P :thumbs: LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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