Shooting opportunities

[Teal]

For what it's worth RE: game shoots- they will look after their own. They will give the days outside the season if there are pigeons about to either the gamekeeper or beaters as perks of their input during the season. I think it is unfair to ask them to divvy it out, as this is in effect saving them money and breeds a good relationship. I'm all for it. If more people went beating rather than just (your suggestion) stumping up cash for a year, they may find it easier to get shooting, as well as beaters day, walked up days and good banter.

On this subject... I find the idea of NOBS (no offense members) a bit silly, I've spoken to a few keepers and brought this up, most of them have read the glowing reviews in the press, but put yourself in their shoes- just because someone stumps up £5 a year and signs up to "NOBS" you're not going to let them come along and potentially mess up a shoot which has a value of thousands of pounds. Perhaps in this day and age people are getting lazier and have more disposable income, I'm all for encouraging people to go shooting, and have constantly said this and more importantly done it. But do we want to attract these people and push out the shooters already there... Is quality better than quality. I honestly believe if you put the effort in you can get land, some regions are harder than others no doubt, but it certainly makes you appreciate and savour more rather than some subscription service. (IMO).

[mossy835]

as i said i would not pay for shooting,its out there you just got to knock on doors i have to many farms but i do get round them all,i see the farmers evry week and talk to them,they know im a bout.and do the job

[markbivvy]

hi David.

good luck to you and the basc, shooters need some form of shooting organization that looks after shooters and not there discipline,unfortunately there seems to be a divide amongsts shooters that could and will be the downfall of the sport. hand guns have gone,pheasant shooting could be next, with one thing and another( maybe basc know this and that is why the sudden interest in pigeon shooting)i,am suspicious by nature dont take this personnel. one by one its all disappearing.unless someone or some body can get us all singing from the same book.i think a country pursuits organisation hold the answer not a single shooting organisation. this of course is only my opinion, and is worth jack s^"&.

[Cranfield]

Is the BASC going to create these shooting opportunities by suggesting to Landowners/Farmers, that they should/could charge for their pigeon shooting ?

 

Most pigeon shooters buy "their" Farmer a bottle or two at Christmas, or have some other "payment" arrangement.

Read the posts elsewhere on this Forum, nobody takes their pigeon shooting for granted.

[mossy835]

the gun shop where i go he said a year ago that farmers could charge for pigeon shooing,in time to come i think he could be right.farmers will jump on the band wagon.

[markbivvy]

early last year me and my mate was shooting on a small farm on the outskirts of Leeds.the farm hand came up to us at the end of the day and said Mr smith does not want you on again, as a wounded pigeon had landed in the farm yard and scared the kids. we went to see the farmer but he was out. whenihad been home 5 mins my mate phoned to say he had lost his keys and they must be where his hide had been. he went back the next day and phoned me from the farm. he said the farmer was with him, the farm hand had brought two shooters who where willing to pay £500 per year for the pigeon shooting, and we could have it if we could beat the price. i said no and to leave it as we had all the other farms round this one. , one of the fields backed up to a big posh hotel, and the shooters picked this field for a dawn start on the birds. hotel manager complained to the farmer. so the week after the guns started at dawn round the farm for the ferals, and put 2 shots with the 12g through the barn roof.

when pulled by the farmer they said as they was paying guns he should expect a little bit of grief as it came with the job.we now shoot it again, as Mr Smith would not rent it out for a pension. and i could tell you loads of stories like this. some will sell it. but all of the farms i shoot are friends. or have asked us.

[mossy835]

if you have had farms as long as i have, i get on with all the farmers i would not have to bother about losing it i do a good job for them.one farmer is over the moon with the rabbit control i do.with the rifle in the summer when i drive around.

Edited February 17, 2006 by mossy835

[lurcherboy]

David, I would be reluctant to share what I have gained through my hard work and the time I have put in, it is selfish of me but thats how it will remain.

 

It was very hard for me when I started shooting, lots of people I knew had land but would not share and I can't say I blame them, although at the time it was frustrating to say the least.

 

I do take the occasional guest with me but that is because I can trust them 100% I dont think I would feel comfortable shooting with someone that I dont know either from clay, game or fowling.

 

I am sure you will have farmers that will take a syndicate or club on but I think they will be far and few between.

 

Either way I hope some newcomers will benefit from the BASC initiative.

 

 

 

 

LB

[nbd1]

I personally would not share my permission with anyone but like many others i often take friends out with me which is recipricated when they invite me onto there permission. I know many people who shoot, but there are only a few i would spend a day pigeon shooting with for a number of reasons from trust to just having to spend 8 hours with one person.

 

Having stated the above i would be happy to invite a new shot out for a day with me, if this could be done by phoning BASC and saying do you have someone locally that would enjoy a day out ( to save our sport we need to encourage new shots) If I have to put a number on the times I would do this in a year i would have thought about 3 or 4 times depending on how it goes.

 

I didnt read all the replies in full so if i have repeated others comments i apologise.

 

 

Neil

[kirky640]

David, I would be reluctant to share what I have gained through my hard work and the time I have put in, it is selfish of me but thats how it will remain.

 

It was very hard for me when I started shooting, lots of people I knew had land but would not share and I can't say I blame them, although at the time it was frustrating to say the least.

 

I do take the occasional guest with me but that is because I can trust them 100% I dont think I would feel comfortable shooting with someone that I dont know either from clay, game or fowling.

 

I am sure you will have farmers that will take a syndicate or club on but I think they will be far and few between.

 

Either way I hope some newcomers will benefit from the BASC initiative.

 

 

 

 

LB

just a bit selfish my friend how will up and coming young, old and new people get into shooting and country side sports if people like you wont give them a go ?? :< :< :o :*)

[lurcherboy]

David, I would be reluctant to share what I have gained through my hard work and the time I have put in, it is selfish of me but thats how it will remain.

 

It was very hard for me when I started shooting, lots of people I knew had land but would not share and I can't say I blame them, although at the time it was frustrating to say the least.

 

I do take the occasional guest with me but that is because I can trust them 100% I dont think I would feel comfortable shooting with someone that I dont know either from clay, game or fowling.

 

I am sure you will have farmers that will take a syndicate or club on but I think they will be far and few between.

 

Either way I hope some newcomers will benefit from the BASC initiative.

 

 

 

 

LB

just a bit selfish my friend how will up and coming young, old and new people get into shooting and country side sports if people like you wont give them a go ?? :< :< :o :*)

The up and coming, my kids and some lads on here, are invited Kirky.

 

 

 

 

LB

[dunganick]

i like the idea, however much like LB i would be reluctant to share, i happen to shoot on one 750 acres piece of land with over 5 different groups of shooters on it (about 12people in total)

 

the problems are mainly found when it comes to treatment of the land (shells etc... and where the blame should lie when the empty carts are found - serious live stock issue) secondly the ability and safety of these people, if a fox was found injured then there are lots of people who could have done it, and i very much doubt any would admit it. (what if livestock gets shot, despite the insurance i very much doubt you would ever see them again)

 

over shooting...... the big one in my mind (being a person who goes out with the intention of shooting things) on this piece of land with many shooters we find that rabbits are there one day and gonethe next. whilst we might only take the medium/large ones, there is no garuntie the other shooters will do likewise.

 

of course these problems are the same ones faced by alot of syndicates, but most of them will get new members through recomendations as known safe and sensible shots.

 

i think the idea is good, however i think there are a few problems which can only be ironed out with trial and error.

 

what ever the outcome best of luck, its a move in the right direction no matter what.

 

 

out of intrest which David of BASC is this?

[Stealth Stalker]

My house backs on to my permission, that is paid for £150 per year!

I know "a bit steep". But I like the convenience of walking out my back garden

gate into acres & acres of prime bunny hunting & pigeon decoying land.

 

The problem I have is the farmer also lets plenty of others out on the land

which creates the sort of problems others have mentioned.

Over shooting, empty cartridges all over the place, Safety!

 

Just last week I returned home after a session stalking rabbits with the

air rifle. Happy with 2 nice plump bunnys for the pot. I noticed a pick up coming

across the fields lit up like a christmas tree with 2 guns banging away like

lunatics. I watched as they teared across the fields with no regard for the crops,

and counted over 50 shots.

 

They never once stopped to pick up and seemed hell bent on shooting everything

in the field. They moved on to adjacent land, where I heard numerous other shots.

 

The fields in question are surrounded on one side by houses, and needless to

say someone called the police.

 

My point is do these idiots not realize the harm they are doing to the concientious

shooters amongs us. Putting a burden on the police force, creating bad feeling amongst the non shooting community, not to mention doing more harm to the crops than the rabbits are doing.

 

Back to the point, I think if I did aquire some land for myself, I would guard it

religously. It only takes a few to ruin things for many!

 

SS

[Axe]

So what are you paying £150 pound for? if the farmer is letting all and sundry out!!! Sounds like he's only interested in cashing in, which is something that should not be ignored. In my opinion.

[David BASC]

Dear All,

 

Thanks very much for all your feedback.

 

I think that farmers will require / expect payment - maybe not in terms of money but in terms of pest control services, work around the farm etc.

 

I think also that as things change more farmers may well start charging shooters. But as you have clearly identified, buy building positive relationships with your landowners can help protect you shooting.

 

I agree with Mark - there should be several organisations for shooters to join - as it will be almost impossible for any one organisation to match the needs of everyone. I do think that htere are probably too many organisations at the moment- but so be it. There is co-ordintation between most of the organisations via the Brishish Shooting Sports Council.

 

BASC will encourage farmers to ask for reasonable payment if they are letting the game shooting rights. However, we will also be encouraging farmers to allow pigeon / rabbit shooters access as well. I am sure that in many cases (not all) game syndicates and pigeon shooters can work in harmony - indeed, I know of several cases where this is so.

 

The shoot finder service that BASC offers does not cost members anything as we do not charge them fore it. We act in this context a bit like a dating agency- but of couse if you use the serive to join a club or syndicate you will have to pay their affiliation fee.

 

I am encourages that so many people on this thread take guests out - how many of you would be willing to offer this service on a regular basis via BASC?

 

Guys, thanks very much for all the input it has been great- if you think that there is more to add then please do so - if not then I would be happy to close this thread - it is up to you guys.

 

Thanks again

 

Best wishes

 

David Ilsley

Head of Membership Marketing

BASC

[deadeye ive]

Now I accept that we all want to protect our shooting rights - but if you got  permission on a new farm, say 250 acres - would you share it or would you want to keep it all to yourself?

 

Would it be better for the farmer , and other shooters, if you set up a small club of say 6 or 8 of you rather then keeping it all to yourself?

 

How would you like to see BASC getting more shooting opened up?

 

How could you guys with shooting help people?

 

I hope that this generates an interesting and productive exchange.

 

Best wishes

 

David

David

 

I like many others here rely on the fact that there needs to be an element of trust with who you shoot with ............Taking total strangers out is a no, no where i'm concerned .

 

If you want to get land then by doing your homework ,presenting yourself in the correct way and doorknocking you'll will get some success ,,,It might be moderate but it'll be a start .

 

Alot of New shooters to the sport look for the easy way and who can blame them ........But if like myself and others who have repaired farm trailers ,,helped out with lambing and bought the Christmas presents etc then there is only a mutual respect for the likeminded amongst us as they understand the efforts made.

 

Let's say that by going to the effort of aquireing your own land that it's part of a apprenticeship if you like thats sorts out the serious and dedicated to the sport of shooting as opposed to the ones that just want to have a play .

 

 

Its been mentioned earlier about landowners wanting financial payment so as pest control can be carried out .........

 

Here is an example..........

 

Last year the Secretary of a certain Golf Club where I shoot put the rights out to tender ..........I refused to take part in the bid ...........What happened was a fly by night chancer with BASC Insurance took over the shoot ..............4 mths later I ws invited back by the Greenkeeper as he had to intervene because the other shooter was going up in broad daylight and conducting himself like he was yosemite Sam and was'nt prepared to respect anybodys wishes as he had PAID for the privelidge .

 

Paying to shoot on land for the purposes of pest control IS NOT THE WAY

FORWARD I hope BASC condemn this action should it ever arise.

Ivan ............Basc Member

 

PS Best of Luck with this ventre though David............OH! This was typed and posted whilst the above response by youself was posted .

[Ferret Master]

Hi,

 

It helps to know the landowner a bit before you ask to shoot his land. Offer to help him or if you notice any damage on his land report it then help to fix it.

The land that I shoot vermin with my air rifle (and soon to be my ferreting land as well ) backs onto my Gran's back garden and we have known the owner for years. He wants the rabbits reducing and I do this for him... however he knows and trusts me because I'm a safe shot and look after the land. When he has a few cattle in there and they damage the fencing around his trees my and my Dad put it back up or when they are calving we ring him etc...

I take many newbies to shooting out over the year and providing they have proved to me they are a safe shot I am happy for them to acompany me shooting but I wouldn't want to lose the land because someone went in there without me and caused damage or failed to respect it properly. You have to have complete trust.

I think nbd1's idea is good because just one person with the normal shooter would give someone a taste for the sport and not overshoot the land but most importanty you wouldn't be letting a group of unsafe people who you don't know very well onto your land. :o

I hope all this makes sense. :*)

 

FM

Edited February 17, 2006 by Ferret Master

[Dave-G]

ive: Let's say that by going to the effort of aquireing your own land that it's part of a apprenticeship if you like thats sorts out the serious and dedicated to the sport of shooting as opposed to the ones that just want to have a play .

 

I could'nt have put it any better than that.

[David BASC]

Dear All,

 

even more excellent feedback - thanks again.

 

It is important that people do not think that just by joining BASC you will automatically get some shooting- I can see all sorts of problems if this were so!

 

However, part of BASC's remit is not only to safeguard shooting but to develop shooting opportunities for our members.

 

If a new member of BASC wants to join a club or syndicate that have vacancies- BASC can point them in the right direction and the club can then vet their prospective member - so there are safeguards in place.

 

We could also give advice to a group of members who want to start a club.

 

We can give access to wildfowling, goose shooting, and deer stalking through permit scemes.

 

We want to encourage farmers to keep allowing shooting.

 

I think we will no develop a guide to getting your own shoot- taking many of the points that have come up on this thread -

 

I will be writing to all BASC clubs and syndicates asking which ones will let rabbit and or pigeon shooting to other BASDC members, in return for either a fee or for help on the shoot.

 

Is there anything else that you can think of that I could review / produce to help people?

 

Best wishes

 

David

[Axe]

I still feel that if a charge is to be made to people who want to shoot vermin, it will deter people from the sport. However, I wouldnt be against beating for them on occasion, in return for permission to shoot vermin.

[pavman]

great thread

 

I got stone walled by all my local farms, so joined a local wildfowling club and have never looked back, made new friends, shoot duck, got some more shooting for woodies and am now membership secretary, looking for new members to boot, pm me if you want details of fab shooting east suffolk/norfolk

 

 

 

pavman

[SNAKEBITE]

To some farmers hiring out the land would be just buisness. I have seen advertised shooting holidays where you pole up to a cottage and fish/shoot your little heart out for the week.

This is on someones local "patch" remember. However it could be a big attraction for some people to an area that otherwise is not a "honey pot".

 

Where do you draw the line?

 

I try to offer the best service I can to my "customers". I try to ask them if there is anything that needs doing, usually shooting wise but I am not adverse to helping out anywhere.

 

As for out and out paying up front I'm not to keen on that idea. People then get expectations and start taking liberties. There are so many areas that would need qualifing that it would turn it into a logistical nightmare. Things like,

FREQUENCY OF VISITS, SPECIES YOU CAN SHOOT, NUMBER OF PEOLE ON LAND AT ONE TIME, HOW DO YOU "BOOK" YOUR VISITS, and those are just to start with.

 

I would encourage ANYONE to come along and try their hand at shooting and pest control. I would take someone from the forum out, after all SUSSEX LAD took me out last year when he did not know me from adam. Now he is part of the "club".

 

Having a BASC "dating agency" is a double edged sword. It might help some people get a shoot but it will alert the farmers to the fact they can start charging for the priviledge.

 

It's a right old ******* muddle.

[David BASC]

Taking the dating agency idea forward- how about if this was held in a secure section of the BASC web site that only BASC members could access.

 

If you wanted to take somone shooting with you- you would put your 'advert' in the relevent section - listing the type of shooting, how to contact you, other requirements etc.

 

The BASC member would then contact you- and make final arangements.

 

Accepting that some people have already made it clear that they would not take out anyone they did not know- and fair play to you- it's your free chice of course- for those that would, could this type of system work?

 

David

[dunganick]

not sure if this has been mentioned.... however a scheme that would intrest me greatly and you would quite possibly get a significant amount of money from me for is this.....

 

let me explain,

 

i believe you will be familiar with the scheme one of the 'anti' groups has come up with, to buy pieces of land from people and then sell it on (without the sporting rights) so no pest control or shooting can happen on this land.

 

well is it possible to do something not disimilar ourselves?

 

buying sporting rights from people (beit for money, or free pest control)

 

then members can choose to join this scheme paying a most likely very steep price and then securing land in the area they can use to shoot on.

 

it has alot of problems, with cost and squandering etc...

 

but would be a good way to secure future shooting for shooters.

 

just an idea

[mel b3]

david basc , another pie in the sky question mate , if as a shooter with a decent amount of land i agreed to take a new shooter out for the day(via basc) , would basc vet them in any way ?, or would it just be a case of i would have to take whoever was sent to me ? , i always make sure the guys i take with me for the first couple of times understand the ground rules ,they are.

 

you do exactly as i tell you.

if you point that at me ,you get a thump up the head.

 

these are my rules and to save any embaressment later they are made clear before i take anyone out with a firearm, i'm always glad to take a new shooter out into the field but they have always been guys that i already know to be ok or guys that have come with a reference that i can trust , i don't know how comfortable i'd be with someone i'd never met before and i was only taking because they had basc membership and a gun , i'm not the luckiest person in the world and i'd probably end up with mad dog mcmad the wiltshire goat strangler or something , another problem that may arise is bag size , i know most of my land and its perculiar ways so i can make an educated guess as to where to shoot at what time of day / year ,but what would happen if i took someone for a day shooting and nothing presented itself , would they be happy just to have had the walk like i am or would they be threatening to sue me and basc for their fuel costs and time wasted ? , like i said mate ,all pie in the sky but worth thinking about.