southrop Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Can any of you guys can recommend a good gunfitter preferably with access to a pattern plate based in the north west area? I want to set up my adjustable rib / comb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 http://www.kelbrookshootingschool.co.uk/index.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southrop Posted January 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 http://www.kelbrookshootingschool.co.uk/index.php Thanks Gordon R, I've been to Kelbrook a few times but have never seen a pattern plate? I assume it is hidden somewhere? How do you rate them as gunfitters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) I can't believe they don't have one tucked away. I have never used a gunfitter and I never will. I have grave misgivings whether many of them know what they are doing. I might get stick for this, but I believe it is another way of extracting money from shooters. If you followed their advice, your gun fit would alter with weight change, clothing etc. I use flat shooting trap guns and see no top rib at all. It worries me when I see alleged gunfitters who start prattling on about seeing a bit of top rib. If you see any at all, you will shoot high - that isn't opinion - it is a fact. Okay for rising targets, but a disaster for droppers. A good friend of mine - Graham Stephens who runs Gundeals - had a laser device which went in the end of your barrel. It provided a red dot which showed where you were actually aiming, as opposed to where you thought you were. A better investment in my book. Kelbrook have a reputation as decent gunfitters. Personally, I would save my money. Edited January 4, 2011 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
point and shoot Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Google 'Bob Spencer Gun Fitting' There's a lot of good info on fitting a gun etc. Worked for me! Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 I like Bob Spencer's explanations, but this but most modern shooters will like one around 13.25 to 13.5 inches. is very wide of the mark. On most modern guns length of pull would be 14 - 15". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I like Bob Spencer's explanations, but this is very wide of the mark. On most modern guns length of pull would be 14 - 15". Doesnt mean they would not be better with a shorter stock tho. I believe in "gun fitting" but it's an art not science, pattern plates are OK but not a real target. I also have an Arrow laser shot, not used it enough yet but if your mount isn't good enough you can have the gun fitted if you have the gun adjusted too much it changes the mount, and yes clothing etc all make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 HDAV - you may be right about stock length and the mount. Good luck with the laser. Just being nosey - Graham has sold his - how much are they? I was thinking about one for my youngest. Personally - a 14" stock is way too short for me. I have picked up guns in gunshops, put them to my shoulder and known straight away that they had been shortened. This despite being told they were untouched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillmouse Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Gunfitting is indeed a "black art". Fit will vary according to your weight, your clothing, your stance, your mount, any alteration in eye dominance etc., etc. A gun which comes to you consistently and comfortably and achieves a sight picture which is consistent and repeatable in the majority of circumstances is probably all a lot of people need. You can take it as far as you like too. Assesing gunfit is relatively simple. Altering woodwork to suit is where it can get costly. Firing at pattern sheets, laser bore sighters etc. will all give an indication of where the pattern is going in relation to where you think you are looking. It can be a very revealing exercise for relatively little cost. Unless it leads to a stockers bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) I can't believe they don't have one tucked away. I have never used a gunfitter and I never will. I have grave misgivings whether many of them know what they are doing. I might get stick for this, but I believe it is another way of extracting money from shooters. If you followed their advice, your gun fit would alter with weight change, clothing etc. I use flat shooting trap guns and see no top rib at all. It worries me when I see alleged gunfitters who start prattling on about seeing a bit of top rib. If you see any at all, you will shoot high - that isn't opinion - it is a fact. Okay for rising targets, but a disaster for droppers. A good friend of mine - Graham Stephens who runs Gundeals - had a laser device which went in the end of your barrel. It provided a red dot which showed where you were actually aiming, as opposed to where you thought you were. A better investment in my book. Kelbrook have a reputation as decent gunfitters. Personally, I would save my money. Got to agree with this. In my opinion, unless you're a bit of an odd build, or if the gun is a bit of an odd build, you can adapt your mount over a short period of time to a new gun. It might only need a millimetre or two and you can sort that out yourself. If it needs to be such a delicate art, why doesn't it all need doing again if you put on or lose a few pounds? I know when my sight picture down the rib looks "wrong" and if I've borrowed somebody else's gun and don't like the sight picture, I just adjust my mount till I do like it I've only ever used "off the peg" guns, and never had them fitted, and I'm not even "average" build Edited January 6, 2011 by Chard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Post edited because I need this keyboard fitting Edited January 6, 2011 by Chard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Got to agree with this. In my opinion, unless you're a bit of an odd build, or if the gun is a bit of an odd build, you can adapt your mount over a short period of time to a new gun. It might only need a millimetre or two and you can sort that out yourself. If it needs to be such a delicate art, why doesn't it all need doing again if you put on or lose a few pounds? Well if it was enough to change your mount and sight picture then yes it would, one reason can be a change in eye dominance which happens as you get older (mostly men) can swap dominant eyes sometime between 40's and 60's if you have a very consistent and good mount why change it to suit a new gun? I am still getting to grips with the sight picture and trying to get my mount consistent. The laser I got off here secondhand, new they are just under £100 if you shop around try "clayman" Oddly i showed it to a couple mates they other day and they weren't impressed and reckoned it wouldn't work but i think it will help especially as it was cheaper than a really big mirror which is the otherway to practise mount without shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky T Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Got to agree with this. In my opinion, unless you're a bit of an odd build, or if the gun is a bit of an odd build, you can adapt your mount over a short period of time to a new gun. It might only need a millimetre or two and you can sort that out yourself. If it needs to be such a delicate art, why doesn't it all need doing again if you put on or lose a few pounds? I know when my sight picture down the rib looks "wrong" and if I've borrowed somebody else's gun and don't like the sight picture, I just adjust my mount till I do like it I've only ever used "off the peg" guns, and never had them fitted, and I'm not even "average" build Whilst I don't dismiss the fact that a properly fitted gun is a benefit, or that fluctuations in clothing or physique will alter how a gun fits you, I think the reason that many shooters do not consider having a gun fitted is because there are so many other factors that affect their clay-busting success rate such as consistently mounting and moving the gun, learning sight pictures, experimenting with chokes and/or cartridges, concentration etc. I'm sure that some shooters can adapt their mount slightly to overcome slight differences in gun fit, but i'm equally certain that others can consistently mount and want to know exactly where their gun shoots and consequently look at having it fitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Summer's coming, I'll be shooting in a T shirt soon. Better get my gun fitted for summer shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky T Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Summer's coming, I'll be shooting in a T shirt soon. Better get my gun fitted for summer shooting Whoa whoa whoa! You've got Spring to cope with first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Summer's coming, I'll be shooting in a T shirt soon. Better get my gun fitted for summer shooting If you’re shooting in just a T shirt I am getting my blind fold fitted. :blink: I can also adapt to different guns, if I am shooting pre-mounted it does not make much of a difference, but if I am shooting gun down I like my comb height to be just right. I can still shoot with a low comb but it is so much easier with one that is the right height for me and I can place my cheek bone on the comb. So in my case taking the time to set it up right is worth the effort. As far as the pattern plate I did that once, it screwed my head up for a few weeks so never again. I just go and play on a practice stand with a tight choke and a very easy target that just hangs in the air (Worsley have a few) and set it up that way. Once done I never touch it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 There we go, Timps has hit the nail on the head. You northern jessies don't worry about having a gun fitted as you all shoot gun up. Try shooting gun down with a gun that doesn't fit and see what sort of a mess you get into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 There we go, Timps has hit the nail on the head. You northern jessies don't worry about having a gun fitted as you all shoot gun up. Try shooting gun down with a gun that doesn't fit and see what sort of a mess you get into. I do :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I do :lol: He did not ask to marry you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon081273 Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Not sure about gun fitting but try it on a pattern plate as long as the gun is shooting where you are looking the rest is down to you put a cross or mark on the pattern plate stand back about 15 paces dont try lineing up the bead look at the target and shot it. Remember 2/3rd of your shot is always ubove your taget. Once you have done this you know your gun fits so stop thinking about it. look at the target not the bead remember some of the top shots dont even have a bead. you didnt need it on the pattern plate! Practice you gun mount every night in the mirror use your eye as the target and you should be centure of the rib every time your muscles in your body will remember a good mount. if you mount the gun different every time then you need to practice this before you go near a pattern plate make sure your eye is in the middle of the rib Hope this helps let me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshways Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I am inclined to agree that professional gun fitting is probably a waste of money. A gun should feel comfortable to aim, length of pull is critical, you don't want to stretch to reach the trigger, neither do you want your thumb up your nose if it is too short. Stock length can be altered quite cheaply, greater length can be achieved by adding a thicker recoil pad, shortening has to involve cutting the stock and fitting a new recoil pad or butt plate. I have mofified length of pull many times over the years and never had a problem. Cast is less often a problem, most guns off the peg usually have sufficient cast to line up middle and fore sight properly. Too much cast can be adjusted by adding a cheek piece, a cheap option is to use a strap on leather pad as a cheek piece. Not enough cast, ie a "straight" gun is more difficult to sort out. Either adjust mounting if not too bad and hang your head more over the stock, if too severe then professional stock bending is the only proper cure but risky and expensive. Best answer is don't buy a gun with impossible cast! I have also seen before a left handed gun being used by a right handed shooter with no idea why he was missing! Next issue is height, for all my shooting I prefer a "flat" shooting gun which shoots to point of aim. Dedicated trap shooters prefer guns to shoot high to give them automatic lead on rising clays. The sight picture being a figure of eight formed by the front sight being higher than the mid sight. This may well be better for some people shooting DTL, Ball Trap etc but the same gun would not be suited to sporting or skeet clays. One gun for all in my opinion should shoot to point of aim. Height can be adjusted by adding comb risers to shoot higher if needed, lowering combs again means bending or cutting. Provided that the gun is a reasonable fit, there will always be compromises, greater attention should be given to technique. Proper gun mounting through constant dry shooting practise is needed and many hours of practise on challenging clays! Happy Shooting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0145wirbelwind Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Would you were shoes that dont fit ?, so why shoot a gun that dont . Jim wills in bath is a god at gun fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Would you were shoes that dont fit ?, so why shoot a gun that dont . Jim wills in bath is a god at gun fit I don't go and get professionally fitted for a pair of shoes If they're about right, I buy them. I wouldn't actually know where to go to get my shoes professionally fitted. The best I can do is ask Wayne or Tray-ceee in the shoe shop, and I know more about it than they do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) Not sure about gun fitting but try it on a pattern plate as long as the gun is shooting where you are looking the rest is down to you put a cross or mark on the pattern plate stand back about 15 paces dont try lineing up the bead look at the target and shot it. Remember 2/3rd of your shot is always ubove your taget. Once you have done this you know your gun fits so stop thinking about it. look at the target not the bead remember some of the top shots dont even have a bead. you didnt need it on the pattern plate! Practice you gun mount every night in the mirror use your eye as the target and you should be centure of the rib every time your muscles in your body will remember a good mount. if you mount the gun different every time then you need to practice this before you go near a pattern plate make sure your eye is in the middle of the rib Hope this helps let me know I am inclined to agree that professional gun fitting is probably a waste of money. A gun should feel comfortable to aim, length of pull is critical, you don't want to stretch to reach the trigger, neither do you want your thumb up your nose if it is too short. Stock length can be altered quite cheaply, greater length can be achieved by adding a thicker recoil pad, shortening has to involve cutting the stock and fitting a new recoil pad or butt plate. I have mofified length of pull many times over the years and never had a problem. Cast is less often a problem, most guns off the peg usually have sufficient cast to line up middle and fore sight properly. Too much cast can be adjusted by adding a cheek piece, a cheap option is to use a strap on leather pad as a cheek piece. Not enough cast, ie a "straight" gun is more difficult to sort out. Either adjust mounting if not too bad and hang your head more over the stock, if too severe then professional stock bending is the only proper cure but risky and expensive. Best answer is don't buy a gun with impossible cast! I have also seen before a left handed gun being used by a right handed shooter with no idea why he was missing! Next issue is height, for all my shooting I prefer a "flat" shooting gun which shoots to point of aim. Dedicated trap shooters prefer guns to shoot high to give them automatic lead on rising clays. The sight picture being a figure of eight formed by the front sight being higher than the mid sight. This may well be better for some people shooting DTL, Ball Trap etc but the same gun would not be suited to sporting or skeet clays. One gun for all in my opinion should shoot to point of aim. Height can be adjusted by adding comb risers to shoot higher if needed, lowering combs again means bending or cutting. Provided that the gun is a reasonable fit, there will always be compromises, greater attention should be given to technique. Proper gun mounting through constant dry shooting practise is needed and many hours of practise on challenging clays! Happy Shooting! This is quite funny for a friday morning, both of the above posts bang on about gun fitting being unecessary and then go on to describe gun fitting. :lol: As for having a gun that "Shoots to the point of aim" L M A O at that one. What use is a gun that doesn't? Why compromise on a gun that doesn't quite fit? You spend hundreds or thousands on a gun and then won't spend the extra hundred or so having it checked and adjusted if necessary? I agree that most guns suit most people but there will always be exceptions. You might like a second hand gun that someone else has had altered and it doesn't fit you. It doesn't really matter because they can be altered to suit. I bought my F3 because I wanted one, the fitting was done afterwards. I just bought the one in the shop I liked the look of and felt better than the rest. Edited January 28, 2011 by MC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 This is quite funny for a friday morning, both of the above posts bang on about gun fitting being unecessary and then go on to describe gun fitting. :lol: As for having a gun that "Shoots to the point of aim" L M A O at that one. What use is a gun that doesn't? Why compromise on a gun that doesn't quite fit? You spend hundreds or thousands on a gun and then won't spend the extra hundred or so having it checked and adjusted if necessary? I agree that most guns suit most people but there will always be exceptions. You might like a second hand gun that someone else has had altered and it doesn't fit you. It doesn't really matter because they can be altered to suit. I bought my F3 because I wanted one, the fitting was done afterwards. I just bought the one in the shop I liked the look of and felt better than the rest. A couple of mounts in the shop is enough for me. I can tell if it's OK or not. If I bought a gun blind (unlikely) and it turned out that I didn't like the fit, then OK, I'd have to get it adjusted, but the implication that every gun you buy needs professionl gunfitting is laughable to me. It's back to the whole dumb idea of gunfit for Summer then refit in Winter to cope with the extra layers of clothing. Load of cobblers. But if you listen to these pro gunfitters, they're trying to tell you that a millimetre or two makes all the difference. Apparently a centimetre or two of extra cold weather gear doesn't though. Each to his own. Personally, I've got better things to waste my money on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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