Redgum Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 You do realise that you couldn't shoot Boar in France with a .308?! Perhaps your force have saved you and them a lot of bother that you would have had if you'd have got the .308 then realised you're not allowed to take it to France? If your plans have been mentioned then you have also given them a good insight into the fact that you haven't done your homework on this one which really doesn't help your cause? I don't mean to sound sceptical or rude - rather just put a view across from their side. You've not studied your arguement carefully enough and if you have put forward this info then it makes you look slightly less than knowledgable or at best amateur - Not ideal! I've worked with my department very carefully since day one. Every email or letter I send is checked, then checked again, edited then checked again, perhaps two or three times. I've been known to spend all day over one letter - checking and changing bits, reading up on the web and making sure everything is 100% accurate and put forward firmly with references to various firearms acts! Sad? Probably?! But I've had my FAC for three years and have next to no conditions on it. No land restrictions, no quarry restrictions, and calibres... read my signature! EDIT... If only I checked my posts at least once. This one looked like it was written by the local dyslexics club! Well living in Stroud you may have to spend all day over a letter,the otherside of the river we learn to write at 7. I agree with you ,the Gloucestershire Firearms dept can be a subborn lot, apart from one civilian in Cheltenham dept that will move mountains for you if you don't treat him like and idiot.Everytime a topic of this nature is started you get all the,' tell em its your right, get BASC on to em, don't bend over and take it, theaten action.All a load of old hot air, research and a well presented case works wonders along with a good relashionship with the FA dept. My FEO has told me stuff that is absolute rubbish regarding firearm law, no point in making him look a fool as the pen is mightier than the sword. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well living in Stroud you may have to spend all day over a letter,the otherside of the river we learn to write at 7. Cheeky! Nufin rong wiv us Stroodies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Well living in Stroud you may have to spend all day over a letter,the otherside of the river we learn to write at 7. :lol: But how do you hold a pen with your webbed fingers? Edited January 6, 2011 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Cheeky! Nufin rong wiv us Stroodies! I wouldnt dare venture up there after dark, joking aside, you heard any big cat stories from your area, was talking to a chap from your part of the world at the Midland and he swore blind that he was walking his dog and came across a big black cat munching on a Roe carcass plus the deer numbers are down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yes NJC I am aware of the restrictions within certain countries, including France, regarding military calibres. I'm glad to hear you research your FEO letters well, clearly better than you read PW posts it seems. Where did I state that I intending using the .308 in France? I don't think I've mentioned it in this thread but the variation request stated boar in the UK and abroad (not country specific). Also, I did get the .308 variation issued <QUOTE> I don't mean to sound sceptical or rude - rather just put a view across from their side. You've not studied your arguement carefully enough and if you have put forward this info then it makes you look slightly less than knowledgable or at best amateur - Not ideal! </QUOTE> That's just plain bish bosh comedy club ironic ecstasy Never mind, at least you got some self promotion across, congratulations. Mere mortals like me can only aspire to be a Jedi-shooter like some of the know-it-alls on here... Oh and I too don't mean to sound rude or sceptical either - sardonic, perhaps, but not rude or sceptical. G'night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Where did you mention France? Umm, well here actually!.... Vince - I've had a trip out for boar in the West country so far and have been making enquiries about boar in France, Germany and Croatia (I have work colleagues in all three countries and the boundary of the French office has an electric fence designed to keep the boar out of the grounds). Please don't take offence over my post. I was simply pointing out where these issues could come from to help you avoid them in the future. I'm no Jedi shooter, or a know it all. I have no need for self promotion because I have nothing to gain by it. Maybe you do though, so it's up to you whether you listen and it's no skin off of my nose whether you want to or not. I can shoot Boar with my .338, 7x57 and perhaps other calibres if I was daft enough to try it - I can shoot Mice with my .338 if I want to and was hoping to maybe help you to achieve the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I didn't ask you to point out where I mentioned France, I aksed where I'd stated I intended to use the .308 on boar in France. I think you just jumped to conclusions (a number of conclusions in fact). Thanks for trying to help, but unlike some of the other contributions here, yours has told me nothing other than some rather un-interesting facts about yourself. I've not taken offence and did not intend offence on you. Nuff said I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I tried to PM you but you're not accepting messages? Is your inbox full? No point in going on about this on the open forum and dragging your topic off course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Dunkield - the agent I used for UK boar would not accept a 6.5x55 as man enough (I did ask) I think I would be tempted to find another 'agent' in that case Thanks for trying to help, but unlike some of the other contributions here, yours has told me nothing other than some rather un-interesting facts about yourself. Well at least he didn't mention he used to have .375 H&H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 HA HA, so be it then...as soon as you question the mighty BASC, you've either a "hidden agenda", or your "anti BASC" Looks like it's only me & Mr_Logic that's only seeing this side of the debate, which he sums up well in his posts. OK David, this has now gone to a different level then, BASC need to support Raja now, & speak direct to the FLM on his behalf. I can see from his posts that he is bothered about rocking the boat, but until you grow a pair of b@llls & stand up for yourself, this sort of garbage is going to be an ongoing issue, apart from fast becoming compulsory. the simple fact is they will rock the boat if he wants them to or as they have done so far they will advise him the best least confrontational way to approach it. Having someone call and get heavy handed on your behalf often isn't the most productive way to go about things. The simple fact is they have set out what they want for Raja to get the condition off and it isn't that onerus so yes he could fight or comply under protest. As for stalks with the .243 counting against getting the condition removed I wouldn't bet on it and the best option IMHO would be to just submit your stalking receipts as stalking receipts and not mention which gun it was with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 It is an unenviable situation, but I can only see two real options here, there are pros and cons to both. You can accept the decision and live with it, but as BJ and Mr Logic say that could make it worse for all who follow your path, but you wouldn't have rocked the boat with your FEO. or You can fight it and hope to get the restriction removed, you would have done your bit for shooters but the downside side you may go on record as a bit of a 'problem child' with your FEO as it were. As with all forums, you will be inundated with "If I were you" advice from people who probably wouldn't take that advice if it was them it was happening to. But... honestly If I were you I would go down the BASC route, that is what they are there for, and in some ways it distances you from the potential backlash if they have to go in hard to fight your corner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I have been reading this for sometime, and I have to say if I was in this position I would be leaning on BASC as that is the most obvious way forward. Its the reason we pay for the best ..... Just as an aside - has anyone ever had any experience of Firearm depts' holding a grudge? I really find it hard to accept that they do if Your questions/investigations are posed in a calm, respectful way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 In my experience no, and I've pushed mine pretty hard at times. If you're rude to them then perhaps they would be able to use it to show that you're a bit unruly but I don't know as I've never done it? If you come back to them politely but firmly, quoting the law and pointing out that their opinion is restricting you unnecessarily, then you show yourself to be very knowledgable on the subject. That offers them at least some comfort that you are a fairly safe bet to be allowed what you ask for because you're a good switched on type who takes a deep interest in your hobby. If you can make yourself look that way then they will start to respect you and in turn, be less sceptical of your requests. Don't forget that the firearms departments are advised to take on the advice of experienced local shots if unsure (with land being cleared etc). If they're good they will take that advice. If you can become one of those considered able to advise them then when you ask for something you have a damn good chance of getting it. It may take some explaining to get them around to your way of thinking if they are unsure of what you're after, but generally after that chat they will ok it. Perhaps my force are just very reasonable? I don't know, but I certainly don't think that putting in a good polite arguement at times will go against you. If anything I think it helps in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I've left a call back request at BASC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 BASC have confirmed that creating much more fuss is likely to cause me more harm than good. There is no process of appeal against conditions once imposed, the Police know that too. I can live with this as I'm already half way through the number of required stalks - good luck to those that follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) BASC have confirmed that creating much more fuss is likely to cause me more harm than good. There is no process of appeal against conditions once imposed, the Police know that too. I can live with this as I'm already half way through the number of required stalks - good luck to those that follow. Well there we go then Raja, hate to say,' told ya so'. Instead of snapping at everyone who offers advice based on many years of experience just because its not what you want to hear maybe you should start listening. Maybe the FA dept picked this up in your character too. Edited January 7, 2011 by Redgum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 to be fair just remember they are doing their jobs and really there will usually be some logic behind their train of thought. Sometimes it defies logic but the BASC deal with it day in day out so know when its worth fighting and when it isn't so really saves a load of stress just asking them. Glad to hear its sorted Raja and just think of it as you've got exactly what you wanted ok you have to do 6 stalks is that bad or a plus point when you were going to do them anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 It isn't really in BASC's or the BDS's interest to fight against DSC or 'mentoring' conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 lol scully you are transparent in your thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Dripping tap springs to mind NJC didn't your firearms department lose all your paperwork at some time or another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 BASC have confirmed that creating much more fuss is likely to cause me more harm than good. There is no process of appeal against conditions once imposed, the Police know that too. I can live with this as I'm already half way through the number of required stalks - good luck to those that follow. I find that very very dissapointing - I would not be happy with BASC and I am generally a supporter. (and obviously a member as well!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 As far as BASC go when i wanted vermin on my 223 and 243 i was turned down so i rang BASC they would not ring my Fire arms dept but they told me who to ring and what to say to them i did as BASC said and vermin was put on both C/F but only when i was out shooting fox's.. That was good enough for what i wanted.. :good: This was the first time i have contacted BASC for any advice.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 BASC have confirmed that creating much more fuss is likely to cause me more harm than good. There is no process of appeal against conditions once imposed, the Police know that too. I can live with this as I'm already half way through the number of required stalks - good luck to those that follow. Well if your happy with that Raja, so be it. Me personally, I wouldn't be, & would be looking for membership elsewhere. Lets face it, BASC hasn't even made a phone call on your behalf , in my opinion they've just talked you around it, & persuaded you into taking the mentoring scheme. Did you ask BASC what was the point of taking the DSC-1 ? How many hoops will you have to jump through next time. When the Met impose this & get away with it, the more these conditions will become compulsory for shooters in the future, in fact it looks like it already has down your way. Best of luck with your next 3 stalks & getting your ticket sorted the simple fact is they will rock the boat if he wants them to The simple fact is NO they won't Alex. the simple fact is they will rock the boat if he wants them to or as they have done so far they will advise him the best least confrontational way to approach it. Having someone call and get heavy handed on your behalf often isn't the most productive way to go about things. As for rocking the boat...every renewal since I've had my FAC I've ended up on the phone with the FLO, one way or the other, has this put me in the bad books, I doubt it. Alex, who said anything about "Having someone call and get heavy handed " ? You can have a sensible constructive conversation with them & state your point, without the approach you've mentioned. As in all of my cases it's the FLO Staff that are misguided phoning, enlightening them where they are obviously wrong, & asking to speak to the manager direct is the option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 let me guess BJ SACS would get him it with no conditions As Hawkeye says advice as to what to do from someone who knows is what is needed. If they can step in they will if its something that is nigh on impossible to argue then getting that advice is about all that can be done. As it is he has the gun so the variation hasn't been refused which is when you can challenge things. Yes its a pain in the backside but its there, or do you know better a way of disputing conditions legally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) Yes its a pain in the backside but its there, or do you know better a way of disputing conditions legally? Read my post above Alex, all is revealed The dreaded word SACS's....!! Glad you mentioned it, I would of being accused of being "Anti BASC", or maybe have a "Hidden Agenda" Edited January 7, 2011 by Bazooka Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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