hunters_return Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Hello all, I have had my thinking cap on and thought i would get some opinions of you guys who know more about these things than I. I have a .22lr and a .22wmr at the moment, and an open slot for another .22lr My intention was to buy a semi but I'm now thinking of asking for a one for one for a 17Hmr. Question one : is it as simple as that ? Question two: would i see the benefit of the Hmr along side the lr and wmr, and what do i say when the FEO asks why i want that as well as the other two. Thank you for any feedback. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I have .22lr, HMR, WMR and FAC air, etc etc etc, but these are tools of my trade and I use the most appropriate for any job. Frankly, for a general shooter I'm not sure how you would approach this as the HMR and WMR are not a million miles apart, especially if you look at some of the 30g WMR ammo and compare it with the 20g HMR ammo! You will, as with all firearms, have to show a need/justify any tool, all 3 are different and if you can show you need that difference then you should be able to get a HMR as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 As Dekers says,if you can show good reason then it should be straight forward.I have .22lr and .22 mag',a mate has .22lr,.17HMR and .22 FAC air-rifle.He got all these when he traded in his Sako quad,which he didn't rate. Incidently Dekers,how did you like the 30grn magnum loads?I tried some Remington 34grn loads and my Ruger didn't like them at all,had to go back to 40grn's.Like the sound of the 20grn .17's,didn't know there was an alternative to the 17grn's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I'd be more tempted to ask for a small centrefire. Something like a .223. But then, what do you shoot? Do you just want something else or do you need it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) As Dekers says,if you can show good reason then it should be straight forward.I have .22lr and .22 mag',a mate has .22lr,.17HMR and .22 FAC air-rifle.He got all these when he traded in his Sako quad,which he didn't rate. Incidently Dekers,how did you like the 30grn magnum loads?I tried some Remington 34grn loads and my Ruger didn't like them at all,had to go back to 40grn's.Like the sound of the 20grn .17's,didn't know there was an alternative to the 17grn's. ....are you sitting comfortably.... My last WMR, a CZ American with a 16" barrel and Sako Mod loved the 40g CCI Maxi Mag HP and had no problem delivering them to 1" but was not keen on the lighter stuff at all, went out to 1.5" (even on a good day ). Traded it just over a year ago for a brand new CZ American WMR which I had the dealer chop to 19" and put a SAK on it. Ammo wise it has reversed, the 40g really struggles to make 1" now, more like 1.5" but the lighter stuff, the 30g Hornady Ballistic tips, the various CCI 30g and the Remington 33 grain Accutip all work within 1". That actually makes things better for me as I use it primarily for Fox and Goose and the lighter expanding stuff works really well, the 40g HP was not the best at expanding and I don't think there are any Ballistic tips at that weight. Excellent stopping just the same compared with the 17HMR as it's a .22 to start with so it punches a bigger hole and it carries more energy anyway! Only problem I have now is about 700 .22WMR CCI Maxi Mag HP in the Cabinet! With regard the 20g HMR, there are a few choices at that weight but I have to say I see the HMR as a 17g Ballistic tip round where it performs very well, but at the same time that makes it a bit of a one trick pony. Probably why I have .22lr, HMR and WMR! Any Offers? Edited January 7, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colster Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Yes it's as simple as that but as others have said, you'd need to be doing a LOT of shooting (full time pest controller) to really need WMR and HMR as I feel the differences are slight. To be honest I'd struggle to justify having both LR and HMR - I do and love them both but it was an indulgence to buy them both but hey ho, 2 shotguns and a .243 later I've stopped worrying about it! If I was in your position and just had a hankering for something new (let's face it, however we justify it on our FAC Applications these situations do occur, I found myself the other day pondering how I could justify a FAC shotgun - decided squirrels were the answer), I'd probably go .22CF or .243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunters_return Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thanks guys, Its the good reason bit I am struggling with, and I don't think "I just fancy a change" will do the job. My main quarry is rabbit and the odd fox. Ncj110381, I would love to ask for a centre fire but I know they wouldn't grant one on the permission I shoot at present, That is why I went for the wmr for the odd short range fox. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosa Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Correct me if im wrong but a 1 for 1 is only if its the same calibre. ie you sell a .22 and need another after its sold. If you were going for a .17 then its a variation in itself with again the reasons why you want it?? I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colster Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Correct me if im wrong but a 1 for 1 is only if its the same calibre. ie you sell a .22 and need another after its sold. If you were going for a .17 then its a variation in itself with again the reasons why you want it?? I think You are wrong A variation only requires paying a fee when it would increase the number of firearms (including moderators) on a holder's licence. If the number of slots held stays the same, it's a 1-4-1 For example, let's say you had a slot for a FAC Air Moderator that you hadn't used because the FAC Air rifle you bought had a shrouded or integral moderator. You could 1-4-1 that for an unmoderated .243 and avoid paying the variation fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Correct me if im wrong but a 1 for 1 is only if its the same calibre. ie you sell a .22 and need another after its sold. If you were going for a .17 then its a variation in itself with again the reasons why you want it?? I think As Colster said the 1 4 1 simply relates to slots and money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosa Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Thats great chaps. As i stated i wasnt sure. Smashing i have a few slots for items i wouldnt need again. so i have a slot for a .223 can i swap for a fac shotgun for free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktattoo Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Thats great chaps. As i stated i wasnt sure. Smashing i have a few slots for items i wouldnt need again. so i have a slot for a .223 can i swap for a fac shotgun for free? yes but you obviously need a show good reason for what ever you request Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosa Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Great, cheers, might as well change a few things around and sort a Coterminous license out at the same time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktattoo Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 and dont forget your ,223 is one slot and your mod is another slot so you could do 2 1 for 1 to retain your total number of slots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet 6 Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 I'd go for a .22 hornet as the next step up from a wmr, and don't forget the hmr is not fox legal in essex, unlike the wmr. As for they won't give a C/F on your land, try asking, I felt the same way, but it ended up not being a problem for a .22 C/F Neil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 I'd go for a .22 hornet as the next step up from a wmr, and don't forget the hmr is not fox legal in essex, unlike the wmr. As for they won't give a C/F on your land, try asking, I felt the same way, but it ended up not being a problem for a .22 C/F Neil. I think I get where you are coming from but the HMR is FOX LEGAL everywhere in the UK! If Essex refuse to grant it then take them to court if you have the need. ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet 6 Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) I think I get where you are coming from but the HMR is FOX LEGAL everywhere in the UK! If Essex refuse to grant it then take them to court if you have the need. ATB! Yeah great, But in the real world (where I live) you will not get fox as a condition for HMR. Further more the conditions are decided by the Chief Constable of your area, and are not open to appeal. Neil. Edited January 9, 2011 by Hornet 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunters_return Posted January 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Thats what i was told too Hornet6 paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 All of which is true but doesn't change the fact that Essex don't decide whether a fox can be shot with a rimfire, only your issuing force can. Assuming I have permission there, I can go to Essex and blat foxes with my appropriately conditioned rimfire and there ain't diddly **** they can do about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 All of which is true but doesn't change the fact that Essex don't decide whether a fox can be shot with a rimfire, only your issuing force can. Assuming I have permission there, I can go to Essex and blat foxes with my appropriately conditioned rimfire and there ain't diddly **** they can do about it. this is true, I could do the same anywhere in the country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Yeah great, But in the real world (where I live) you will not get fox as a condition for HMR. Further more the conditions are decided by the Chief Constable of your area, and are not open to appeal. Neil. As I said, I get where you are coming from, but they do not make the law. The Fox has NO legal minimum calibre/energy. If you have a good reason to use one and can demonstrate it is the safest and most appropriate tool then there is nothing to stop you appealing, there is simply no law that says you cannot use a HMR on a Fox, it is therefore the whim of your region. IF you have the good reason, there is plenty of supporting evidence from regions all over the UK that will allow various rimfires for use on fox. In addition, as pointed out by others, I can come to Essex and use my 100ft lb .22lr subs on foxes perfectly legally. They haven't got a leg to stand on, it simply needs someone with the right need and big enough balls to take it all the way! ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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