mudpatten Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Dekers, I hope you won`t mind me picking up on a couple of points. A few pages back you included a photograph accompanied by the comments that there was no other bird life in the picture. A quick glance at the snap will reveal what appears to be a deep and flowing river where, frankly, one would not expect to see much other aquatic bird life. The picture only contains 13 canada geese and I can see no goose **** whatsoever. In effect it is a picture of canadas NOT causing a problem and perfectly illustrates the attitude that any canada is a problem and the bird needs to be killed. There are, of course, areas where they need to be controlled and I`m not advocating that they receive complete protection,only treatment commensurate with the actual rather than the imagined problem, something that the old paper licensing system did very well. You correctly surmise that I`m a coastal fowler but are very wrong in concluding that we never see any. We have a healthy local population into which I and my fellow fowlers make a significant, but sustainable, dent, every season. Not only has my earlier offer to shoot canadas causing agricultural problems failed to draw a single response from the farming community, but neither have similar overtures to the farming community through a variety of more farming specific mediums. You may see the canada as a pest but this is apparently not a view shared by the farming community who should otherwise, according to your standpoint,be biting my hand off to get rid of them. Why do think that is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Maybe the farming community don't regard canadas as a pest where you are mudpatten,either that or they already have people to resolve the issue if they don't do it themselves.Where I live,we get quite a few phone calls from farmers regarding canadas,and when things get really bad(in their opinion)there are organised shoots between several landowners covering vast acreages to keep canadas moving.Percentages shot by this method is very small,but so long as they're gone then the landowners seem happy....until landowners 50 miles away do the same thing! you should see the size of some of the 'roost' shoots around here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Out of curiosity, what is your location? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 yeah lets make it even more complicated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Out of curiosity, what is your location? Lake District. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) http://www.gobirding.eu/Photos/CanadaGoose.php http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gloucestershire/8460367.stm Just a couple of quick examples of the fact that wild canadas regularly turn up in this country. With global warming and the changes to the arctic tundra brought about by an overburden of Snow Geese, it will be interesting to see how this affects the incidence of truly wild birds in the UK. p.s. Thank you Scully. Edited February 4, 2011 by mudpatten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 You're welcome mudpatten,is that 'go birding' website yours?As an artist i may be interested in using some of those photo's if needs be(commissions etc)all copyright assured of course.I have no decent photo's of Canadas,and had no camera woth me when we camre across the nest I mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Holt Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 A few pages back you included a photograph accompanied by the comments that there was no other bird life in the picture. A quick glance at the snap will reveal what appears to be a deep and flowing river where, frankly, one would not expect to see much other aquatic bird life. On water like that you would expect to see mute swans,coots and moorhens along with the dabbling ducks such as mallard and diving ducks like tufted and pochard...well that is what we see up here on the same type of rivers that don't have a Canada population on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) Dekers, I hope you won`t mind me picking up on a couple of points. A few pages back you included a photograph accompanied by the comments that there was no other bird life in the picture. A quick glance at the snap will reveal what appears to be a deep and flowing river where, frankly, one would not expect to see much other aquatic bird life. The picture only contains 13 canada geese and I can see no goose **** whatsoever. In effect it is a picture of canadas NOT causing a problem and perfectly illustrates the attitude that any canada is a problem and the bird needs to be killed. Have Specsavers arrived in Portsmouth yet? There are, of course, areas where they need to be controlled and I`m not advocating that they receive complete protection,only treatment commensurate with the actual rather than the imagined problem, something that the old paper licensing system did very well. You correctly surmise that I`m a coastal fowler but are very wrong in concluding that we never see any. We have a healthy local population into which I and my fellow fowlers make a significant, but sustainable, dent, every season. Not only has my earlier offer to shoot canadas causing agricultural problems failed to draw a single response from the farming community, but neither have similar overtures to the farming community through a variety of more farming specific mediums. You may see the canada as a pest but this is apparently not a view shared by the farming community who should otherwise, according to your standpoint,be biting my hand off to get rid of them. Why do think that is? Probably because they would prefer someone who can see when shooting. There are 14 Geese in the picture and the first lump of **** is on the stone edge just behind the first in the picture. Scan the rest of the grass and you will see it is very difficult to walk in the area without treading in it. You will also notice the bin, as I said this is a very popular picnic and sunbathing spot, these activities are not compatible with the Canadas. It is the River Thames, there are plenty of other Goose/duck species all over the Thames, but not so much when the Canada turns up and dominates But, like I have said many a time, there will never be any convincing many Wildfowlers there is ever any need to deal with a Canada under the GL terms. Edited February 4, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Touche! But if I`m blind, you`re right there are 14 canadas, although I still can`t see the ****,then you are geographically challenged since Portsmouth is in Hampshire and not Norfolk as you appear to believe. All I can say is that if 13, sorry, 14 canadas have denuded a significant chunk of a river of all other bird life as well as having frightened away all the sunbathers and picnicers, they must be some of the "hardest" canadas in the country. Look at the one third in from the camera, looks a proper psycho! I do think that we will never see eye to eye on this but hope you will agree that something needs to be done about the OGL "vermin" and "kill `em all regardless" attitude. A final point. One of the most effective ways to control canadas out of season is to round them up when flightless and humanely despatch them.This requires some skill,does not involve guns and can be distasteful. Why is it that almost all the enquiries relate to shooting them with one weapon or another. Could it be just an excuse to kill something out of season or play with a gun rather than actually wanting to control the birds numbers? Incidentally,the bird watching site is not mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Gemini, your right. dftfw I think that the General Licence is a complete waste of time these days, it seems to stand in place to allow people to shoot anything named on it whenever they feel, with no one to make sure that other methods of protection of the areas are tried. In all honesty how many people have tried rockets and bangers to scare of pests from freshly cut maize or standing rape before deciding to go and shoot? The General licence should stop being processed from country to country and focus on counties. Canada Geese have just been added to the welsh GL and it really is laughable as they really ain't a problem up here in the north, yet the cowboys will soon be shooting them weather they are actually being a pest or not wish I'd took a pic last late summer acres and acres of flat wheat caused by hundreds and i mean hundreds of canada's, tis the very reason why i say 'my ar 5 e' to anyone who truly believes they should not be on the gl if they come back this year I'll take pics, shut you lot up for good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) Touche! But if I`m blind, you`re right there are 14 canadas, although I still can`t see the ****,then you are geographically challenged since Portsmouth is in Hampshire and not Norfolk as you appear to believe. What was that I said about Specsavers, and yep, last time I went to Portsmouth I went South and not East! All I can say is that if 13, sorry, 14 canadas have denuded a significant chunk of a river of all other bird life as well as having frightened away all the sunbathers and picnicers, they must be some of the "hardest" canadas in the country. Come on, you really are clutching at straws now, that is a very naive response Look at the one third in from the camera, looks a proper psycho! I do think that we will never see eye to eye on this but hope you will agree that something needs to be done about the OGL "vermin" and "kill `em all regardless" attitude. You will see I have never disagreed with this from the outset, many still don't have a clue what the GL's mean and think it is open season on anything they hear is on the GL. A final point. One of the most effective ways to control canadas out of season is to round them up when flightless and humanely despatch them.This requires some skill,does not involve guns and can be distasteful. There are many situations where this is just not practical, and the most humane/effective way of controlling them is a bullet in the head from distance, that causes them absolutely no stress whatsoever.! Why is it that almost all the enquiries relate to shooting them with one weapon or another. Could it be just an excuse to kill something out of season or play with a gun rather than actually wanting to control the birds numbers? You are getting desperate, just what do you call Wildfowling? Incidentally,the bird watching site is not mine. ...and like I keep saying, there will never be a consensus with Wildfowlers, who have no idea on the whole of the inland problems these geese cause. Just why do yo think they went on the GL? It sure as heck wasn't to screw up Wildfowlers "sport" Time to go.... FIN! PS, Immediately under his backside, just below that, and on the brown dirt front right, I'm sure you will see more if you get an offer from Specsavers. ATB! Edited February 4, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 O dear a Canada has done a poo. And as for Canada’s driving other birds away that’s rubbish. Its not surprising there are no tufted or pochard as they are not to be expected to be found everywhere and the piling is not going to encourage birds like moorhen. I could take a photo in the middle of a flock of almost any birds and find other species were not in the picture. As for wildfowlers not understanding what the picture is inland with Canada’s that’s rubbish , many wildfowlers shoot and travel widely inland. We do not have to live in saltwater. As for my experience , by trade I am an ecologist and visit a lot of wetlands in the course of the year. As for problems with farmers Paul rockets will do the job fine if its needed. As for your hundreds of Canada’s that’s a tiny flock compared with the numbers of pink feet that come on my marsh. If I do not see 40,000 at morning its a poor flight and the peak count a few years ago was 90,000 and that’s off one roost. And hardly a complaint from any of the farmers. Indeed the very large local estate will not let the farmers shoot the geese. It looks bad to see fields grey with geese , but in reality they do little harm apart from a few weeks in the spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Holt Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) O dear a Canada has done a poo. And as for Canadas driving other birds away thats rubbish. Its not surprising there are no tufted or pochard as they are not to be expected to be found everywhere and the piling is not going to encourage birds like moorhen. You are quite correct piling is not going to attract much but the overhanging trees on the other side are ideal habitat suppose they could all be hiding over there Edited February 5, 2011 by Davy Holt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongo321 Posted February 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 well it certainly seems to vary around the country , but around here they 'poo' a bit more than a little! and the futile attempts of other forms of scareing them has had the farmers running around like headless chickens so to blanket judge would be just as effective in establishing the impact accurately , I can only say as it is around here and its bad, the fields are as if a muck spreader as been out , and anyone can say this is a cruel blood lust ive got or call it sport and argue if they are vermin or not , all depends on your view , But at the end of the day they are under the licence and i for one will be doing my bit to ease the problem no matter what my feelings are . But here canada's are causeing horrendous problems not just for the farmers but for other aquatic wildlife also as its near to a very popular lake does not help . so guess what im doing this weekend . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) Fine bongo shoot a few , but do it at the right time of the year - Autumn and winter.. As for the harm they are suposed to do have you tried rockets. Have a word with your farmer and he will be able to get them for you and that will save you the trouble of shooting breeding birds. A couple of days shooting rockets and you will not have to bother to shoot them because they will not be there. And remember by law you have to have tried other methods of scaring them off first when out of the wildfowl season so to stop the risk of prosicution get some rockets and you will be able to sleep soundly knowing you have done a good job for your farmer. Edited February 5, 2011 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HW682 Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 And remember by law you have to have tried other methods of scaring them off first when out of the wildfowl season so to stop the risk of prosicution This is not true. I am not making any judgement on any individuals views on the moral rights or wrongs of certain kinds of shooting. However, when newcomers etc ask questions they are often told, sometimes quite bruskly, to go away and read the legislation before even thinking of picking up a gun. Surely more experienced guns also have a duty to know what the law is, especially if trying to quote it to back up an argument. If in doubt read note o) of GL-04: o) Condition 3 of this licence – which requires users to satisfy themselves that other appropriate legal methods of resolving the problem are either ineffective or impracticable - only applies to bird species that Natural England considers to be native to Great Britain (these are listed at paragraph 2(i)(a)); it does not apply to non-native species (listed at paragraphs 2(i)( B )). People may use non-lethal methods, such as scaring and proofing, for non-natives and are encouraged to do so where this is the best solution to a problem, but these methods do not need to be shown to be ineffective or impracticable before this licence can be relied upon. Let me just repeat this bit: I am not making any judgement on any individuals views on the moral rights or wrongs of certain kinds of shooting. I just think it is important that we all fully understand the current licence conditions - whether it suits our viewpoint or not. ATB HW682 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) Sorry i stand corrected Edited February 5, 2011 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongo321 Posted February 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Fine bongo shoot a few , but do it at the right time of the year - Autumn and winter.. As for the harm they are suposed to do have you tried rockets. Have a word with your farmer and he will be able to get them for you and that will save you the trouble of shooting breeding birds. A couple of days shooting rockets and you will not have to bother to shoot them because they will not be there. And remember by law you have to have tried other methods of scaring them off first when out of the wildfowl season so to stop the risk of prosicution get some rockets and you will be able to sleep soundly knowing you have done a good job for your farmer. he's done all that with the game keeper ,it was like a military tatto , thats what i was trying to say its a last resort @ £1.40 a round i would rather play with rockets , and as for prosicution ive contacted my feo and had canada added to my licence to shoot with the 223 so along with the GL im all fully belted with my braces . Edited February 6, 2011 by bongo321 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Good spot HW682, I hadn't noticed that part before. They seem to have added an extra little bit here too: r) Severe Weather and Waterfowl Shooting: During periods of prolonged severe cold weather users of this licence are asked to show, where appropriate, voluntary restraint in activities (such as shooting and scaring) that could disturb waterfowl (ducks, geese, and waders). The Natural England, Defra, JNCC, and BASC websites will indicate when periods of „voluntary restraint‟ apply. Please note that this licence may still be used to take or kill Canada geese during periods subject to a statutory suspension of shooting, although users are asked to show voluntary restraint and to do so only when absolutely necessary. A statutory suspension temporarily prohibits the shooting of any bird on Schedule 2 Part 1 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (which includes Canada geese). As far as I remember Canada's weren't protected last year during a statutory suspension? A step in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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