Blackbart Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 I had a phone call from the CA the other day trying to get me to rejoin.Gave me all the "sales pitch" which included the benefits of the insurance and they said that there insurance was exactly the same as BASC insurance only with the CA there was no excess to pay in the event of a claim ! Anybody know what the excess is on a BASC claim ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) Yes, There is no excess on the BASC policy – I should know I have been handling all the BASC insurance claims for the last 15 years. OK gloves off, and I may well get into bother with this - but I am getting pretty sick of the CA's attack on MY organization (and I am a CA member!) Sad and pathetic that the CA are now so blatantly targeting BASC and BASC members. So much for solidarity. The CA seem to have forgotten they were only too glad for BASC’s help with the Countryside march, the Rallies etc, and now turn round and kick BASC - great strategic thinking boys If the CA package is so bloody poor that you have to slash the price in half AND launch a PR / ad campaign attacking BASC before people will buy it, then I must say they must have a bloody shoddy product! What clever so and so though it would be a good idea for shooting, and indeed field sports in general to openly attack BASC? Short sighted and narrow minded in my view. And now, apparently, to have a telesales campaign that is not exactly being open and honest in its comparison with the CA policy and the BASC policy - how flipping low can you go. Stick to your knitting CA – Hunting. You can offer sweet FA for shooting & shooters compared to BASC and you know it and guess what – the more wise shooters out there know it too!! David Edited February 13, 2011 by David BASC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 Well said. This has been a long time coming in my opinion, I think that David and others have sat on their hands for long enough. webber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCD Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 Yes, There is no excess on the BASC policy – I should know I have been handling all the BASC insurance claims for the last 15 years. OK gloves off, and I may well get into bother with this - but I am getting pretty sick of the CA's attack on MY organization (and I am a CA member!) Sad and pathetic that the CA are now so blatantly targeting BASC and BASC members. So much for solidarity. The CA seem to have forgotten they were only too glad for BASC’s help with the Countryside march, the Rallies etc, and now turn round and kick BASC - great strategic thinking boys If the CA package is so bloody poor that you have to slash the price in half AND launch a PR / ad campaign attacking BASC before people will buy it, then I must say they must have a bloody shoddy product! What clever so and so though it would be a good idea for shooting, and indeed field sports in general to openly attack BASC? Short sighted and narrow minded in my view. And now, apparently, to have a telesales campaign that is not exactly being open and honest in its comparison with the CA policy and the BASC policy - how flipping low can you go. Stick to your knitting CA – Hunting. You can offer sweet FA for shooting & shooters compared to BASC and you know it and guess what – the more wise shooters out there know it too!! David Blimey carry on like that and I will renew my membership in the morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenshooter Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 Yep David, well done for being so frank. I have been approached in a similar way to re-join CA a while ago but since I got a very poor attitude from someone on the CA stand at a gamefair because I was a fox shooter, I didn't join again. And when have you ever seen a gun on a CA stand? And I was on the London March and do think they do a good job lobbying for the return of fox hunting. But shooting, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) Yes the CA did a good job for hunting ( they lost it ) but they are rubbish when it comes to shooting. We had a rep from the CA give my club a talk last year ( she is now a senior officer of the CA ) and it was clear she did not know anything about shooting sports. All they wanted was the shooters money to carry on their fight for hunting. She even had to admit under questioning that this 1\2 price membership fees was just a gimic to get more members and in their second year they were going to hike up the fees to about the same level as BASC. The whole organisation has shown themselves to be a load of bungling fools running about like a bull in a china shop , making a lot of noise , but acheving nothing. If the CA ever won any shooting battles would they like to tell us about it. Edited February 13, 2011 by anser2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 Yes, There is no excess on the BASC policy – I should know I have been handling all the BASC insurance claims for the last 15 years. OK gloves off, and I may well get into bother with this - but I am getting pretty sick of the CA's attack on MY organization (and I am a CA member!) Sad and pathetic that the CA are now so blatantly targeting BASC and BASC members. So much for solidarity. The CA seem to have forgotten they were only too glad for BASC’s help with the Countryside march, the Rallies etc, and now turn round and kick BASC - great strategic thinking boys If the CA package is so bloody poor that you have to slash the price in half AND launch a PR / ad campaign attacking BASC before people will buy it, then I must say they must have a bloody shoddy product! What clever so and so though it would be a good idea for shooting, and indeed field sports in general to openly attack BASC? Short sighted and narrow minded in my view. We're doomed! And now, apparently, to have a telesales campaign that is not exactly being open and honest in its comparison with the CA policy and the BASC policy - how flipping low can you go. Stick to your knitting CA – Hunting. You can offer sweet FA for shooting & shooters compared to BASC and you know it and guess what – the more wise shooters out there know it too!! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckster Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 It happens every time this topic crops up, "my dad is bigger than your dad",as for insurance you only know you what you are really covered for if you make a claim, which I hope none of you have to. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongo321 Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 It happens every time this topic crops up, "my dad is bigger than your dad",as for insurance you only know you what you are really covered for if you make a claim, which I hope none of you have to. Barry very well put , its buisness and all about money and nothing between them , something about 'all in the same pot' comes to mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 very well put , its buisness and all about money and nothing between them , something about 'all in the same pot' comes to mind " There are none so blind as those whom will not see" webber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I had a phone call from the CA the other day trying to get me to rejoin.Gave me all the "sales pitch" which included the benefits of the insurance and they said that there insurance was exactly the same as BASC insurance only with the CA there was no excess to pay in the event of a claim ! Anybody know what the excess is on a BASC claim ? no excess with BASC isn't quite true, look at the key facts its spelt out there but shoot vehicles and shoot property is a potential issue. Interestingly as was mentioned by someone earlier round me there is a general indifference to the BASC on most shoots with no keeper that I know being a member and most supporting the NGO. The small syndicates still seem keen but not the people in it full time who seem to believe the NGO offers them more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildgoose1uk Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 TO HELP DEFEND FIELD SPORTS To assist with the defence of all field sports by ensuring that gamekeeping is of the highest quality and is properly represented http://www.nationalgamekeepers.org.uk/about-the-ngo/ If all you are looking for is cheap insurance then go with whichever cheap provider you wish. But be under no illusion that NGO purports to represent anybody other than gamekeepers' and their interests..... quite understandably given the name of their organisation. The NGO have around 15k members as compared to BASC's 130k. The NRA have about 7k individual members but have over 700 clubs affiliated to them. The CPSA have about 25k memebrs and 400 clubs. Both BASC and the NRA seem to have good media set ups and contacts with people who can make a difference and represent most but perhaps not all areas of shooting between them. To my mind the only reason for joining the NGO would be if you are a gamekeeper or if you want cheap insurance. I do not think they would disagree. Is it any wonder that (apparently) few professional keepers are members of BASC when they have an organisation set up specifically for them to look after their own interests exclusively. It isn't surprising..... merely logical. (Incidentally I have no knowledge of how many keepers are BASc members other than what has been stated in this thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildgoose1uk Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 no excess with BASC isn't quite true, look at the key facts its spelt out there but shoot vehicles and shoot property is a potential issue. can you be more specific about which areas in the key facts you mean? I will be joining BASC but I need to be certain if it meets my insurance needs or if I will need additional insurance as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 We have around 5000 'keeper members, this figure has remained constant over the years. Many of our keeper members are also NGO members of course. There are only a certain number of 'keepers in the UK, so any 'keepers only' organisation will soon first that its 'maxed out' on members. This is why, in my view, the NGO have spread their wings as it were to include non ‘keeper supporters. If they had not done this then in my estimation their membership would have hit a plateau at 5-7,000 WAGBI hit the same problem, and a name change to BASC saw a massive growth in memberships as we opened ourselves up to other shooters. Although we had always be open to other shooters, the ‘restrictive’ name meant many others shooters did not immediately form an emotional or empathetic link to WAGBI if they were not wildfowlers. The NGO were set up to represent Gamekeeping as a profession , and I cannot see them ever moving away from this – i.e. a name change is not on the cards, nor should it be in my view. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I did think the patter was a bit underhand and when i queeried the fact Basc claims were subject to an excess payment i was again told that there was indeed an excess to pay with them but none with the CA.I didnt think there was but wasnt 100% sure so didnt push it any further. I have been a member of just about all of them at some time or other and sometimes at the same time but the thing is if push come to shove and there was a REAL threat to draconian gun laws coming in then BASC would be the ones with the loudest voices being heard in the right places and for the sake of the same price as a box of cartridges a month it isnt a lot of money really is it ? Ps I think BASC membership will grow quite a bit when the pay monthly terms start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Out of interest Blackbart roughly how long ago did they call you? I will be taking this up with the senior management of the CA Fair competition for members I don’t mind of course, as I have said time and time again there are a range of organisations and if they fit you needs better then BASC so be it. If an organisation has a good membership package then people will join, its as simple as that. If the membership package is not up to much then making up stories about the other organisations, is not going to fix your problem, especially when it comes out you are not telling the truth! Incorrect and misleading campaigns are no acceptable in my opinion. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 sent a pm David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongo321 Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) " There are none so blind as those whom will not see" webber just what i said , sadly i see all to clearly Edited February 14, 2011 by bongo321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Blackbart, thanks for the PM, in hindsight it explains some of the calls we were getting last week about an excess on the BASC policy- seemed odd at the time, now it all makes sense. Some good points about you only know how good an insurance policy is when you come to claim. That is why I keep going on about the fact that you do need to see a copy of the full policy wording before you make a final decision, or at the very least a copy of the FSA approved format 'Key Facts' insurance summary document. Just remember, many of the cheap insurance deals out there are 'policies of last resort' they only pay up is no other policy will cover the loss, and typically its up to YOU to check out all other insurance you hold...when you make a claim and claim of other policies first. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRTaylor Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 David BASC, I've been biting my tongue on this thread for a while now but I feel you have gone way too far. I also believe it is you who has been misleading people regarding insurance. Firstly, there is an excess on the BASC policy. The initial £250 excess was deleted and replaced by a £1000 vehical only excess: "The first £1,000 of compensation payable in respect of damage to vehicles, owned, leased or hired by or otherwise under the control or direction of any person who is involved in the shoot (e.g guns, beaters, pickers up, guests etc.) caused by falling quarry, falling shot or falling debris." Secondly, you keep repeating the same lines as "policy of last resort". This is because if you are insured twice for a liability, the CA (and other organisations') policy state that the policy most appropriate to the claim should pay. The BASC policy states: "If at any time any claim arises under this Policy there be any other insurance covering the same liability the Insurers shall not be liable to pay or contribute more that[sic] its rateable proportion of any such claim and expenses in connection therewith." Therefore the policy will pay a proportion of the claim. Both of these instances mean that the claimant will recieve a single settlement - which is all that can be legally done. If you have two insurance policies on your car, you dont get two payments if you crash!!! I'm not going to be drawn into an "ours is better than yours" argument, people are free to make their own decisions. With your petulant public attitude, are you suprised that the honest shooting public have little faith the shooting organisations. We should be working together, and we do - People here will probably be suprised to hear that it was the CA's contacts in parliamnet that allowed BASC to show firearms to members of the HAC at Westminster. The CA was very happy to help, but it was something BASC kept very quiet. However, when you're in public, all you seem to do is throw mud...I rest my case. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenshooter Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 However, when you're in public, all you seem to do is throw mud...I rest my case. David Utter nonsense, IMHO. David BASC has been one of the most patient people on here considering what he has had to put up with. And, I don't see too many other organisations bothering to post here? Maybe they just can't be bothered coming onto shooting forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRTaylor Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Glenshooter, I post this an employee of the Countryside Alliance (and a member of BASC ) David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenshooter Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) Glenshooter, I post this an employee of the Countryside Alliance Would have been somewhat more candid if you had declared that on your previous post, IMHO. And good to see you on the forum. The CA is somewhat lacking in involvement in many things shooting. Edited February 15, 2011 by Glenshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 DRT you've written how I feel about Davids slating of other organisations, and written it far better than I could. We all know he works for BASC and that he is going to promote them all the time but I do feel the justifications for why they are better go a little too far at times, as its either our insurance is better than yours or we do more for shooting blah de blah. Personally I am a fairly long standing BASC member so not exactly biased one way or other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRTaylor Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 My fault - I'm the Shooting Campaigns Manager at the Alliance - I should have made that clear from the outset. I've only been in the job since October - The Alliance decided to open up a position and have someone dedicated only to shooting. I know the Allinace hasn't been great online - I'm currently trying redress that balance. I'm sure I'll be in for as much stick as David BASC gets.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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