pavman Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Just out of interest some info plz on the Hornet set up, effective range, make, cost of rounds etc and if poss a pic would be nice. I think i need another Rifle i have a .17 HMR and a .243 and perhaps need a dedicated night vision set up that would cover Rabbits and Charlies. I have not had a play with a Hornet but it sounds Ideal............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) I'm in the why take out a gun that doesn't quite do the job camp, the hornet is fine but not really a bunny gun and not a full on fox gun. I've got something that would be far better sat in my cabinet and thats a .223 cheap ammo so you don't have to reload it. Far more legs than a hornet and by the time you are shooting bunnies with a centrefire well you might as well do it properly. I was toying with the idea of not selling it and getting NV for it but really to set up well the costs are pretty astronomical. well unless you compare them to the costs of that PMII you have Edited March 2, 2011 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Unless you reload... Forget it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 But Alex what happens to a rabbit thats head shot with a vmax .223 ? dose it trash the neck and front of the rabbit or does it have much the same effect as a HMR? I only ever head shoot as all mine are for the pot or sale . Also how cheap can you load a .223 vmax light fast round ? And what is a .223 like for richochetts ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I'm in the why take out a gun that doesn't quite do the job camp, the hornet is fine but not really a bunny gun and not a full on fox gun. I've got something that would be far better sat in my cabinet and thats a .223 cheap ammo so you don't have to reload it. Far more legs than a hornet and by the time you are shooting bunnies with a centrefire well you might as well do it properly. I was toying with the idea of not selling it and getting NV for it but really to set up well the costs are pretty astronomical. well unless you compare them to the costs of that PMII you have I had a 223 (Fox) sold it when i got the 243 (+Deer) as i did not think i would use it (223) a friend has a cracking NV unit (£2500) from new and he rekkons he can see out to 500 so for under 5K i could get a full NV set up just thinking thats all................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Just out of interest some info plz on the Hornet set up, effective range, make, cost of rounds etc and if poss a pic would be nice. I think i need another Rifle i have a .17 HMR and a .243 and perhaps need a dedicated night vision set up that would cover Rabbits and Charlies. I have not had a play with a Hornet but it sounds Ideal............ Hi, It seems that you already have a full on fox rifle. The hornet would sit nicely in between the 2 rifles that you already have. However, a 223 would shoot further than the hornet, but what distance do you need? Also, to gain full advantage of the 223, the NV is going to cost the earth. So, basically, it's your money and you takes your choice. Now, if you were to reload the hornet, it all changes. A decent 30 or 35gr bullet is the same price as a 17hmr to reload so it is cost effective for bunnies although a 22lr is still better for short range. Moreover, a 40gr Nosler at 3000ft/sec (or thereabouts) is not to be sniffed at. Have fun choosing! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 If you can see that far with it forget a hornet and a .223 is definitely best, you can pick a decent one up for £500 notes depending what you get. As for rabbits being ok really they aren't going to be great with a hornet or .223 but pest control is pest control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 no Hornet owners yet.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 no Hornet owners yet.......... HW 66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 HW 66 can you talk about it or is it a Secrete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 can you talk about it or is it a Secrete Hello, mate, Thought I just did - can't see the point of answering a question or offering advice if you don't know what you're talking about. It's all good info for you so far and really, before asking what rifle, you will get even more help if you could specify what range you are looking at. Don't have the rifle just at present as it's away at the 'smiths. Given time to reply, you'll find some really knowledgeable guys on here for the calibre. Oh! Weihrauch, by the way. Cheers, Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Hornet on here (Neil) has one and loves it ! Am sure he will be along shortly to tell you about it ! I have my HMR but am curious about something with a bit more welli for the fox`s although I only take maybe 10 a year and my main quarry being bunnys. With money being tight I couldnt afford 2 rifles or carry 2 rifles round my permitions. so I am curious looking for a sinlge rifle that will do me for bunnys and occasional fox ! I do like the idea of hand loading myself to. But at the moment my HMR seems to do everything I need but I cant stop being curious about the .223 and hornet ! ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I have a hatch fitted to my truck with a nice 360 foam rail all round and a front box that will take two rifles one held in a rest upright one on a foam pad in case i need it....... this came about as when out for rabbits i would see a fox and not be able to reach it with the HMR and of course i see rabbits when foxing and find it hard to drive past and leave them... I am very happy with my set up but i do like to look at all options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Pav, The Hornet is a good little hobby gun. You'll need to reload for it to get the best from it and I throw my loads out at about 25p per shot. That's the same as HMR if you consider your time at the loading press as free. Range wise you're looking at 250 yards on bunnies, 200 for Fox. That's maximum and for still days only. The Hornet just doesn't have the grunt to push out a long way like the .222 and above rounds do. What I like about my Hornet (and I've had the .22 and .17 versions) is that it's mild, costs the same as HMR to shoot but can take a Fox at any range the HMR can take a bunny. Some people will say HMR is fine for Fox but I'm on the other team in that department. I really don't agree and think it is very limited for mid sized quarry. What do you want pictures of? Rounds, rifles, results on quarry? Given a few days I can come up with a picture of most things Hornet related. I'll just have to go out and blat whatever it is you want to see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 (edited) It comes down to how much shooting you do, what different environments you shoot in, and how many guns do you want/need. I have 7 FAC tools but I have a gap between my .22WMR and .223. A Hornet would full this gap nicely (although with ammo choices already available to me it has not ruined my life). Shooting is my job and my passtime so I have some choices of tools and LOTS of different land. Most don't, the Hornet is a cracking calibre, somewhat out of favour today but fills a gap nothing else really does! ATB! Consider carefully if you really need it! Edited March 3, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted March 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) It comes down to how much shooting you do, what different environments you shoot in, and how many guns do you want/need. I have 7 FAC tools but I have a gap between my .22WMR and .223. A Hornet would full this gap nicely (although with ammo choices already available to me it has not ruined my life). Shooting is my job and my passtime so I have some choices of tools and LOTS of different land. Most don't, the Hornet is a cracking calibre, somewhat out of favour today but fills a gap nothing else really does! ATB! Consider carefully if you really need it! spot on Dekers, however just now its just a option i am looking at the cost of bunnies with the HMR ammo cant be far off a Hornet and last year I shot about 600 however I am lucky that my farmer coughs up for them when i ask (he has an account with a local smithy)when i take out the HMR you can bet i will see a charlie at range outside the .17 and its not on my tcket, and would do with some more grunt and my FEO as far as i know wont allow Fox on a HMR but should on a hornet so one tool would cover me when on the Quad bunny bashing not sure if a 222 would be better all rounder cost range etc Edited March 4, 2011 by pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted March 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Pav, The Hornet is a good little hobby gun. You'll need to reload for it to get the best from it and I throw my loads out at about 25p per shot. That's the same as HMR if you consider your time at the loading press as free. Range wise you're looking at 250 yards on bunnies, 200 for Fox. That's maximum and for still days only. The Hornet just doesn't have the grunt to push out a long way like the .222 and above rounds do. What I like about my Hornet (and I've had the .22 and .17 versions) is that it's mild, costs the same as HMR to shoot but can take a Fox at any range the HMR can take a bunny. Some people will say HMR is fine for Fox but I'm on the other team in that department. I really don't agree and think it is very limited for mid sized quarry. What do you want pictures of? Rounds, rifles, results on quarry? Given a few days I can come up with a picture of most things Hornet related. I'll just have to go out and blat whatever it is you want to see! all and any pics would help thanks good points and bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) I'm also in the "17 HMR isn't the best for fox" camp, having used the HMR for fox and not been pleased with the result (more than 1 shot required to dispatch at 100yards) this is why I opted for a 22 WMR as it hits harder than the HMR I have only shot crows and rabbits with it so far but the damage it does is devastating so I am fairly sure it's going to be a clean kill on a fox out to 100-120 yards. Although this may not help you with the range issue.... Edit to say - 22-250 was suggested but you would be just as well sticking with the 243 if you got one of these! What range do you want to take foxes to realistically? Regards, Gixer Edited March 4, 2011 by gixer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted March 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) I'm also in the "17 HMR isn't the best for fox" camp, having used the HMR for fox and not been pleased with the result (more than 1 shot required to dispatch at 100yards) this is why I opted for a 22 WMR as it hits harder than the HMR I have only shot crows and rabbits with it so far but the damage it does is devastating so I am fairly sure it's going to be a clean kill on a fox out to 100-120 yards. Although this may not help you with the range issue.... Edit to say - 22-250 was suggested but you would be just as well sticking with the 243 if you got one of these! What range do you want to take foxes to realistically? Regards, Gixer 22-250 is to close to my .243 i am thinking about something between my 17 and 243 that i can use from my quad for rabbits but will dispatch a Fox clean if i see one up to 200 yards. when in the truck with my lamp man driving its not a problem as i have room for both rifles in my cuddy box up top and just pick up what i need. Edited March 4, 2011 by pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 I'm loosing track here Pav, if its to shoot from a bike then the hornet is fine, if its a dedicated night vision set up with a good night vision scope it will restrict you, bear in mind the hornet has a similar trajectory with a 100 yard zero it drops about 7" at 200 yards and is loosing power fast, then you have to reload it and to me its a ball ache. I don't mind reloading for foxes and deer but bunnies is another thing altogether Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) 7" drop at 200!?! That would immediately rule the hornet out if it was me as if you take this and wind drift into equation the hornet is not the tool for a fox out at 200 yards, I guess sometimes we can't get a "do it all" caliber.... Maybe a new fox caller would be better so you can call them in a bit closer? It'd be a good design if someone created a double rifle with a 22LR bottom barrel and a 243 top and a switchable cross hair to suit both rounds, I know of a few people who would use it as they have the same problem of rabbiting and seeing a fox and having to swap rifles - the very reason I bought a 22wmr which to be honest is a bit of a loud bang for lamping at 2am! Regards, Garry Edited March 4, 2011 by gixer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted March 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) I'm loosing track here Pav, if its to shoot from a bike then the hornet is fine, if its a dedicated night vision set up with a good night vision scope it will restrict you, bear in mind the hornet has a similar trajectory with a 100 yard zero it drops about 7" at 200 yards and is loosing power fast, then you have to reload it and to me its a ball ache. I don't mind reloading for foxes and deer but bunnies is another thing altogether Alex I dont have any knowleadge of the Hornet thats why i am asking it maybe that its not got enough stopping power for what i have in mind which is to fit between the HMR and 243. I am very happy with what i have but always like to explore new options and if bolting on NV helps then i look at that also (mind you on advice from friends it seems its either or as they say if you swap to NV you cant go back) Edited March 4, 2011 by pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 22 Hornet is a rifle you take when you're shooting rabbits and foxes at around 150 yards. You can push it to 200 yards but you need to know what you're doing. If you want to go more than 200, then get a bigger gun. Pavman in your situation there is precisely diddly point in keeping the HMR if you get Hornet. Hornet is similar ballistically to the HMR, but when it gets there it does a lot more damage. If you head shoot a bunny, then it's edible. If you body shoot, there will be a large hole in it. If you shoot a fox in the right place at anything up to and including 200 yards then it falls over - this is not true of HMR. Hornet requires reloading, but tbh unless you are shooting > 100 per week then it's not an issue. Hornet is a nice round to reload since you don't need to lube the cases when resizing as they are so thin. This saves a lot of time. it's very cheap also as your powder load is < 13gr. I use H110 powder, and a tub lasts for hundreds of rounds. 35 gr Vmax is about 20p each or so, maybe a bit more now, but they don't ricochet, and they don't come out the other side of a fox. All told, it's a cracking calibre, but you have to be aware of its limitations. It's quieter and cheaper than all the other 22CFs and is also much better for a short-barreled rifle as there is so little powder to burn (mine is about 18-20 inch (was cut by previous owner and not measured it) and gives full velocity). If you want to shoot a fox in the eye at 500 yards then you want summat else, but if you are at mid ranges for both rabbit and fox, they don't get much better. I use a CZ527, and it's a cracking little tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 I read an interesting review of a CZ in .22 Hornet in Gunmart a while ago and have found it on the web here : - http://www.gunmart.net/gun_review/cz_527_american/ It might help you make your mind up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Alex I dont have any knowleadge of the Hornet thats why i am asking it maybe that its not got enough stopping power for what i have in mind which is to fit between the HMR and 243. I am very happy with what i have but always like to explore new options and if bolting on NV helps then i look at that also (mind you on advice from friends it seems its either or as they say if you swap to NV you cant go back) Obviously there are a few issues whether its a dedicated NV setup or add on. If dedicated then personally I wouldn't put it on my main fox / deer gun as it would mean changing scopes etc far too frequently. I would however not go out with a hornet as a fox gun on our ground its too open to be able to guarantee a 150 yard shot so far prefer something with proper clout. The other side is we lamp from tracks and with a 22cf you can reach them across most fields. If I was in the market for a dedicated nv fox gun there is a sako in .223 for £750 I'd be getting for the job With bunny bashing personally I don't think it offers a major advantage we clobber enough from the truck with HMR's and a filter and really I can't see using a louder centrefire as being advantageous on bunnies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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