mikee Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 a keeper friend of mine asked if i would help him lamp some cubs he had spotted, we met up at 10.00pm and headed off out, by 2,30 we pulled back into his drive with 5 of the little creatures in the back of the truck, the .243 with 95gn hollow points certainly doesnt take any prisoners and the pics are a bit to graphic to be posted on here, but a good job well done the evening was soured a bit when i found two spiker red stags laying dead in the road on the way home, i assume and hope it was a wagon that hit them because by the amount of bits of plastic and glass in the road if a car had hit them someone would be dead mikee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) a keeper friend of mine asked if i would help him lamp some cubs he had spotted, we met up at 10.00pm and headed off out, by 2,30 we pulled back into his drive with 5 of the little creatures in the back of the truck, the .243 with 95gn hollow points certainly doesnt take any prisoners and the pics are a bit to graphic to be posted on here, but a good job well done the evening was soured a bit when i found two spiker red stags laying dead in the road on the way home, i assume and hope it was a wagon that hit them because by the amount of bits of plastic and glass in the road if a car had hit them someone would be dead mikee Each to their own, and the argument rages there is no such thing as overkill, there has to be inappropriate cartridges though. The .243 is a cracking calibre in many respects and has the edge in many situations, but a fox "cub" will only weigh 4-6lb (ish), a little more at this time of year pehaps, the debris is likely to be graphic. Whatever, I'm struggling to see the situation where a 95g HP .243 would be my first choice Fox cub round. ATB! Edited June 18, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garygreengrass Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Well done, I all ways use 65grn ballistic tip .243 on foxes big or small you don`t want them to get away do you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Each to their own, and the argument rages there is no such thing as overkill, there has to be inappropriate cartridges though. The .243 is a cracking calibre in many respects and has the edge in many situations, but a fox "cub" will only weigh 4-6lb (ish), a little more at this time of year pehaps, the debris is likely to be graphic. Whatever, I'm struggling to see the situation where a 95g HP .243 would be my first choice Fox cub round. ATB! I dont think it would be first choice but if it was that or nothing i know which id go for, if it was safe to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) I dont think it would be first choice but if it was that or nothing i know which id go for, if it was safe to do so. Totally agree, but they went out looking for cubs. First off, I rarely use the .243 for fox (my choice, I have plenty of other tools to choose from), but no problem for anyone if they want to, I was just making the point there is better ammo for the job, the reality is of course, hit a fox cub with any .243 round and it is unlikely to get up! Edited June 19, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Dead is dead no such thing as overkill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Dead is dead no such thing as overkill Exactly! I use my .243 for foxes and I stick to 100g Partizan ammo all the time. I know that some say you ought to be using a lighter bullet head but by sticking to the one weight all the time it saves having to re-zero the rifle whenever I want to go and try for deer. With regards to this "overkill" thing I personally think it is a load of tosh! It makes no difference if you are shooting an adult dog or vixen or if it is just cubs, when you hit them with a .243 it is quick and humane, no matter if it is a head shot or an engine room shot - It's not as if we are shooting them for the pot where you want minimal meat damage is it? OK, they might be in a bit of a mess, too messy or graphic to post photographs of but what are we doing here, trying to control the numbers of foxes for the land owners or playing at being "David Bailey"? I would rather have a happy farmer and just the knowledge that I have done my job properly than a load of photos of nice well laid out foxes for people to look at! Do we always have to have photos to prove that we have done the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truckboy1 Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Frenchieboy i have to agree with everything you have just said!!!! Surely it does not matter what calible or round you use as long as it does the job properly!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Overkill is not an issue for me, and I make no such point, but a 95gHP .243 is a ****ty bullet to use on a Fox cub, expansion will generally be hopeless and it will pass clean through without a pause on the whole. The only reason it will kill is because it is a .243. ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Frenchieboy i have to agree with everything you have just said!!!! Surely it does not matter what calible or round you use as long as it does the job properly!!! Oh dear, can I have a 7mm Rem Mag conditioned for Greys please, I suspect that will do the job properly?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Overkill is not an issue for me, and I make no such point, but a 95gHP .243 is a ****ty bullet to use on a Fox cub, expansion will generally be hopeless and it will pass clean through without a pause on the whole. The only reason it will kill is because it is a .243. ATB! blimey I'm going to agree with dekers for a change, I actually know a few people who have regular runners with .243's on foxes. They have been shooting ages yet don't change bullet, as dekers says some don't meet enough resistance to expand much which is the root of the problem. Yes you get a dead fox but some take a follow up shot and you'd be surprised how far they can go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Each to their own, and the argument rages there is no such thing as overkill, there has to be inappropriate cartridges though. The .243 is a cracking calibre in many respects and has the edge in many situations, but a fox "cub" will only weigh 4-6lb (ish), a little more at this time of year pehaps, the debris is likely to be graphic. Whatever, I'm struggling to see the situation where a 95g HP .243 would be my first choice Fox cub round. ATB! yeh but dead is dead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 yeh but dead is dead I have no issue with that, and I'm not trying to turn this into a big event, but that is only a part of shooting. If someone said their Fox CUB calibre of choice was a .308 or 7mm Rem Mag or 375 H&H Mag 300gr, etc, I suspect dead would still be dead. The fact is there can be overkill and/or inappropriate calibres, and most definitely there is inappropriate ammo (which is what my comments have bean about). How do you think you would get on if you applied for say, a 416 Rigby for rabbit control? There are trajectory of flight and accuracy/distance issues, there is the terminal quarry effect of the calibre/ammo, there is noise and there is what the **** happens to the bullet for the next mile or 2 after is passes through! Just a point and observation, nothing heavy, welcome to the debate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Ok, without trying to start any sort of an argument I am happy to use the .243 with a 100g bullet for foxes without any problems. It is a simple case of what if like me you only have two calibres to chose from, a .17HMR and my .243 and the 17HMR is not conditioned for fox (Except for humane dispatch in live capture traps) then you have no options. Yes I would rather have my old .222 for foxing with but I don't have the room for another rifle so I have to settle for the .243 which is conditioned for Deer and Fox! I can honestly say, hand on heart, that I have taken a great deal of foxes with the .243 using partizan 100g Soft Points and have never had one run! So I stand by what I have said - Dead is dead and the .243 offers me a perfectly humane and reliable kill - Incidentally, I have not had any issues with expansion of the 100g bullet on foxes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) Ok, without trying to start any sort of an argument I am happy to use the .243 with a 100g bullet for foxes without any problems. It is a simple case of what if like me you only have two calibres to chose from, a .17HMR and my .243 and the 17HMR is not conditioned for fox (Except for humane dispatch in live capture traps) then you have no options. Yes I would rather have my old .222 for foxing with but I don't have the room for another rifle so I have to settle for the .243 which is conditioned for Deer and Fox! I can honestly say, hand on heart, that I have taken a great deal of foxes with the .243 using partizan 100g Soft Points and have never had one run! So I stand by what I have said - Dead is dead and the .243 offers me a perfectly humane and reliable kill - Incidentally, I have not had any issues with expansion of the 100g bullet on foxes! Ok, even I'm getting bored now. This is getting hard work, and a lot of people are misreading or reading something else into my comments, and I'm not on some crusade or looking for grief......this thread is about Fox CUBS, not foxes and I have no issues with a .243 as such anyway. Now we are getting there....My point ENTIRELY... a 100g SP is NOT a 95gHP, it will without doubt do a better job all round in the vast majority of situations on a Fox or CUB, and PRVI do generally expand well, I use the PRVI SP in .223, .243 and .308! But there are still (much) better for fox CUBS. That's why there are so many types of ammo in .243, (and many other calibres of course) they excel at different things!! Just a simple point which seems to have been lost by many along the way here! ATB! Time to put this to bed..... Edited June 24, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ91 Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 There dead...... As a good friend of mine once said a dead fox can't lie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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