geordiepigeon Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Hi guys. Would I be taking the Mick if I applied fir a centrefire straight after getting a 17 hmr approved? The hmr will be my first rifle although I have had years experience with rimfires under other fac holders supervision. Here's the deal! I haven't actually got my fac through the post yet but have been told that all the relevant checks have been done and approved and it's only a matter if time now before I get it. I have some great land gathered up! Between 3 sheep farmers I have about 500 acres of hilly ground in one big radius which would suit a centrefire well as just about everywhere you turn you are shooting into the side if one. All 3 farmers have had in excess if 20 lambs lifted this year by mr Charlie and are now asking me to shoot the ******* if I see them. I didn't put foxing down as a condition on my application as I didn't expect to do much with an hmr as I didn't see it a siutable weapon of choice for Charlie unless he was close to hand say 50-80 yards. The thing is I dint want to shoot the blooming thing and just wound it. If I take a shot I want it dead for obvious reasons. We have enough lampshy foxes here from people running lurchers at them. So these are my choices but add your own opinions as you see fit 1. Put foxes in condition for hmr. 2. Apply for 223 or 22-250 ( not sure if they will give me straight away without some experience under my belt with hmr first) 3. Trap the foxes until I have suitable experience to apply for a centrefire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiepigeon Posted July 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Forgot to mention. The lambs are well on now and the problem is solved for now so waiting a while before I apply is not a problem. Just want to keep the farmers happy as they were good enough to give me the permission in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter.123 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Put it in they can only say no. Chances are you will get it tho if you can show that you need it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen20 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) If its your first application then i doubt you would get a cf straight off the bat. so if you know anyone with a cf that you can go out with them then do so and do it for a few months get them to write you a letter saying how safe and professional you were at handling the SAID rifle and how you made sure every shot had a safe backstop. If you cant do that then shoot the foxes at around 80 yards with the .17hmr and makesure they are headshots i had a couple run with the .17hmr when i chest shot them so i stopped doing that after it happened and always go for the head shot. to get them in close you could bait up with a dead lamb carcass. i dont like trapping but thats just my personal prefferance. and shoot ALOT of rounds with your .17hmr in the next 8-12 months and then apply for a .223 or 22-250 and if your department is anything like south yorkshire you should get it no problem. id shot a couple of thousand rounds with my hmr and .22lr over about 18 months then i put in for a .223 and got it no probs. and just a side note i used to live in canada alberta and used to go with my next door neighbour dennis stalking with his .308 that he had no cabinet for and used to keep under the bed. when i told my experiance to the Flo who came out for my interview he said i needed written proof. so i had to start with a .17hmr and .22lr it seemed like a right drop down after shooting only a .308 lol. Edited July 9, 2011 by Bowen20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajm1979 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 I got a .22lr & .22cf on my first application no problems with no real, I then put in for my .17 hmr six weeks later and got it. My feo got me to change my application from .223 to .22cf giving me the choice and I ended up buying a 22-250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiepigeon Posted July 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Id say I could put a couple of thousand rounds through the hmr in a short time but il leave the application for a centrefire for a while then. I have only ever made one shot with a 308 it's some tool. A tad extreme for my needs tho lol. Ive been shooting 223 and 22-250 a few times more tho. I don't have a preference between them but I'm aware the 223 is more the prefered fox caliber. Il should have no probs getting a letter in say 6 months time to say I competent enough. Il try the hmr after alot of target practice with a head shot. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Can anyone tell me were the law says you need experiance with rimfires s required before getting a centrefire. What if someone has foxing permision but no small vermin? what if a person has good reason on deer but not smaller quarry? What are they to do then? The best time to hit the foxes imo is christmas through to spring as its dark early and they don't have time to repolulate the area heavily before lambing / nesting. I should if you are at all unsure team up with someone with a centrefire who knows what they are about and won't barge in on your permisions and aply in the autumn, then again why? you have good reason, you have permision, there are foxes there creating a nusance at best they can make you go on a course, get a mentor or similar if they want to stop you gaining one just yet surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Can anyone tell me were the law says you need experiance with rimfires s required before getting a centrefire. What if someone has foxing permision but no small vermin? what if a person has good reason on deer but not smaller quarry? What are they to do then? The best time to hit the foxes imo is christmas through to spring as its dark early and they don't have time to repolulate the area heavily before lambing / nesting. I should if you are at all unsure team up with someone with a centrefire who knows what they are about and won't barge in on your permisions and aply in the autumn, then again why? you have good reason, you have permision, there are foxes there creating a nusance at best they can make you go on a course, get a mentor or similar if they want to stop you gaining one just yet surely? Difinitive answer IMO. Especially if you prempt the mentor possibility and name a supervisor on your application. Takes their legs from under them. As you haven't got the one you applied for yet, quick word with FEO explaining what's happened and see if you can get the CF added on - no extra cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiepigeon Posted July 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 I could get a mentor no probs. I'd do a course no probs also. I'm in northern Ireland and can understand the issues on why they are strict on handing out FACS But like you say I do have good reason. My land is great for shooting and I could do things the way they see fit in order to get a centrefire. I'm away for a few days now so il have a word with my FEO when I get back. Goin back to another reply above. If and when I do apply for a centrefire is it ok to put down 22cf on the application with serial number to follow as I'm undecided on any particular rifle or calibre at present. I knew what hmr I wanted as soon as held it ( cz 452 laminate thumbhole stock 16" barrel) It was comfortable to hold and a great fitting from trigger to shoulder. You all know what I'm talking about when I say it just felt right. It's a little heavy but great looking also. I'd like to get that same feeling when going for centrefire. I wouldn't be selling either at anystage unless my licences were ever turned down on renewal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_in_the_midlands Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 For now, why not ask for fox condition for HMR? It won't cost you anything. You will then be able to deal with a fox if you get the chance. If FEO says that HMR not suatble for fox, then you have justification for a centrefire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Difinitive answer IMO. Especially if you prempt the mentor possibility and name a supervisor on your application. Takes their legs from under them. As you haven't got the one you applied for yet, quick word with FEO explaining what's happened and see if you can get the CF added on - no extra cost. That's how I started. My firt rifle was a 6.5x55 with a mentor suggested to them before they even came out on the visit. However that was because I had a stalking holiday booked with the guy - perhaps if we hadn't have been shooting together so much anyway the mentor may not have been such a good idea for me? I'd just ask them. Keep it on the small side though and don't go mad. .22-250 suggests you want the biggest, .222 or .223 suggests that you just want something that will do the job properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiepigeon Posted July 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 That's all I want is something that will do the job properly. Like I said in a previous post I dont have a preference for 223 or 22-250. They are both adequate for shooting foxes. id get the condition on my hmr but if I'm taking the shot I want the animal dead and not running off injured. I'd be happy enough with the 223. Lamping at night I'd still want Charlie to be no more than 100 yards. I here all these people telling me about these wonder shots taken at night 300+ yards but in my opinion how could you possibly identify the quarry at that distance. I'm No stranger to lamping. I've been goin out with others for years. At first it was just for the experience then I operated lthe lamp and now I do a bit of the calling also which took a while to perfect but can manage a few nice calls using my mouth and back of hand that seems to be effective so I have no need to be shooting at crazy distances unless during the day and it is safe to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Its all about having a need for the particular caliber . Rifles and shot guns are the tools of the trade for pest controllers both armature and professional ,of course you should put in for a variation for a .223 or a .243 if you have to control old reynard . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper3 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 When i applied I asked for 22LR for bunnies and general work horse, 17HMR for long distance bunnies and short range fox, 222 (CF) long range fox, the FEO asked me if i wanted a 223 I said not at this stage, plus I have 3 people who will mentor me..I was granted all 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiepigeon Posted July 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Funny you should say that. A good friend also has been shooting for years with his uncle. His uncle is now getting on a bit and wants to get rid of the guns so my friend phoned the feo and asked if he could apply for them all on his first application. To his surprised he said yes but put a reason down for having each of them. The guns consist of 2 x o/us, 1 x s/s, 1 x .410, 1 x hammer action shot gun from ww1 that wieghs about 3 tonne called Bertha and a 22lr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 (edited) For now, why not ask for fox condition for HMR? It won't cost you anything. You will then be able to deal with a fox if you get the chance. If FEO says that HMR not suatble for fox, then you have justification for a centrefire. I think this is the most practical answer so far! It might pay you to have a "Named Mentor" with experience of Centre Fire rifles at the ready in case they tell you that you will need to get one! From what you have told us you certainly can justify the need for a calibre suitable for shooting foxes, especially if you can get one or two of the farmers to put it in writing to back up your application showing good reason for a "foxing rifle"! It does sound like a phone call to your FEO would be well worth while! Edited July 10, 2011 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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