RC45 Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 I`ll cut and paste my standard answer "Chemical Castration". Job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Not many pirates in Ethiopia though? I thought the significant number of refugees come from Somalia? Zenawi is a pretty distasteful character but there is at least a form of government in Ethiopia. For all the things wrong with Ethiopia they, along with Kenya are allies in the West's attempts to restrict the spread of spread of Islamic extremism. I suspect the warlords learnt the vast majority of their tricks from their previous colonial rulers. I think the underlying issues of the region need to be separated from the current crisis. I was considering a post along the lines of what AVB posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksdad Posted July 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 I used this, latest of many disasters, man made and natural, to highlight my point of view. The country/state and its rights and wrongs etc. is irrelevant: my argument is this...Why is Great Britain sending money to help other countries whilst at the same time saying that there is not enough money to look after its own citizens! As that is indeed the case, it must be said that our leaders value the well being of other countries populations more than its own! How must it feel for a charity, or any fundraising group, who have just raised £1 million to buy urgently needed hospital equipment, to then see our Gov give another country £52 million at the drop of a hat? Hospitals have a "Scanner Appeal" to raise £1 million for a machine to save OUR lives, so what would the UK rather have: another 52 of the same spread all over the UK or the happy feeling that a few thousand people on the other side of the planet have got a 'suspended sentence'? "Sorry Gran, the hospital hasn't got the equipment or capacity or medicine to save you so you have got to die, but lots of kids in africa have got water, goodbye " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Do people who say: "charity begins at home" actually mean "charity begins and ends at home"? Genuine question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksdad Posted July 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 At the moment, YES :blink: When and only when we've got our own house in order, then we will help out others as much as possible! Thats the whole point of my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 So, one of the emerging themes here is that nature should be allowed to take it's course in regards to the fate of hundreds of thousands of innocents a few thousand miles away but at the same time we should do whatever we can to disrupt the course of nature for sick people in our own country. I make no apologies for not subscribing to that logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boromir Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) So, one of the emerging themes here is that nature should be allowed to take it's course in regards to the fate of hundreds of thousands of innocents a few thousand miles away but at the same time we should do whatever we can to disrupt the course of nature for sick people in our own country. I make no apologies for not subscribing to that logic. But saving hundreds of thousands now will mean millions more will die in the future when this happens again. So your killing more children of the future if you save the children there now. Your just postponing it just like a debt it will get bigger and bigger. Has Europe as a whole given anything to them I wonder Edited July 17, 2011 by BFG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 At the moment, YES :blink: When and only when we've got our own house in order, then we will help out others as much as possible! Thats the whole point of my post. There will always be more that could be done to bring our own house in order so by your logic we'd never help anyone else. So what is your point exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) At the moment, YES :blink: When and only when we've got our own house in order, then we will help out others as much as possible! Thats the whole point of my post. That means never then. As medical technology advances but gets ever more expensive, we will never be able to afford to give everyone in the country the very best or latest treatments. Politicians, economists and bankers will never cooperate to achieve the nirvana of a perfect and prosperous economy and an effective, fair and honest government. Yes we need to get a grip of many things in this country, but lets be honest and recognise that we'll never sort them all out. If we wait until we do before we are prepared to show a little compassion we are doomed to be "alright jack" forever. That's not the kind of selfish insular country I want to live in. I'm glad our government is showing some moral courage and continuing to provide aid in face of criticism. Personally speaking I think the day I stop feeling empathy for children dying of starvation, cholera or dysentery, when my own worries are so trivial in comparison, is the day I stop being human. Edited July 17, 2011 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 But saving hundreds of thousands now will mean millions more will die in the future when this happens again. So your killing more children of the future if you save the children there now. Your just postponing it just like a debt it will get bigger and bigger. Has Europe as a whole given anything to them I wonder If the underlying issues were addressed it would not happen again. Mankind is ultimately doomed so by your logic why don't we just all nuke each other tomorrow and get it done with. Think of all the suffering that would avoid in the meantime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boromir Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 If the underlying issues were addressed it would not happen again. Just like last time we helped they never learnt then and they will never learn now, in another 30 years time it will happen again what then will you say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Just like last time we helped they never learnt then and they will never learn now, in another 30 years time it will happen again what then will you say? I can't attempt an answer to your question without knowing who "they" refer to in your question. Please clarify? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelee24 Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 most of the money never reaches the poor FACT the bosses of these aid company's earn hundreds of thousands of pounds a year out of the money you donate FACT aid money can do more harm than good in allot of instances, aiding rebels with supplies in food and weapons or like in the ethnic cleansing in Ethiopia in the early 90s where they used the draw of aid and food to bring everyone to a region to be slaughtered. 65 billion raised from live8 only a couple of years ago we never stopped hearing about it until it was over soon as the money was in we never seen a thing since. not one bit of progress seen from all that money coming in worldwide Id never give to charity for all the reasons above not to mention we all give anyway its our flipping tax money Cameron is sending over there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boromir Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 our government giving out money to people who have so many kids then they multiply then the problem is even worse in the future. As somebody said before Chemical castration is needed. Then the people who receive the money or aid What will they do after the droughts will they prepare for next time? no they will multiply again and expect another handout. Why help them when they cant help themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelee24 Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 i thought most the Africans are living in the UK now anyway in 7 years my town has went from never seeing a black person ever to the point now where if you go to town there's just as many black people as white and all the woman have loads of kids. how are they all getting here and why last time i checked Africa was not in the EU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK-GUN Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 dont worry there will be thousands over here soon, all on benefits and free housing living with the other thousands of somali already here not working all on benefits, dealing drugs, mugging, and being paid by us to have more kids to get child support. makes me sick, look after our own first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelee24 Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 dont worry there will be thousands over here soon, all on benefits and free housing living with the other thousands of somali already here not working all on benefits, dealing drugs, mugging, and being paid by us to have more kids to get child support. makes me sick, look after our own first. i recent survey i think it was in Norway or Sweden found that 75% of there Somali immigrants where involved in crime. we never see surveys done like that in this country as apparently its racist to tell the truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksdad Posted July 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Lets not start the racism, please! Raja C, you are right in what you say, but are also distorting what I say. I agree that we will never reach a Utopia where all ills are cured and people live in peace, but what about all the treatments and technology that are readily available right now, but unavailable to us lot because our Government says it can't afford them? In the last year or so we have all been told to tighten our belts, prepare for some rough times, to accept shortcomings in public services, accept mass redundancies, pay more taxes and at the same time watch our money being given to others! Can anyone tell me, do all other EU members give a pro rata amount as well? I doubt the Greek Government do, along with ALL the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Lets not start the racism, please! Raja C, you are right in what you say, but are also distorting what I say. I agree that we will never reach a Utopia where all ills are cured and people live in peace, but what about all the treatments and technology that are readily available right now, but unavailable to us lot because our Government says it can't afford them? In the last year or so we have all been told to tighten our belts, prepare for some rough times, to accept shortcomings in public services, accept mass redundancies, pay more taxes and at the same time watch our money being given to others! Can anyone tell me, do all other EU members give a pro rata amount as well? I doubt the Greek Government do, along with ALL the others. I haven't seen latest stats (I will get somebody to dig them up tomorrow) but the last ones I saw a couple of years ago had the UK in about 8th place. This is if you measure contribution as a percentage of GDP. Sweden and Norway have always been at the top. UK, France, Germany, Netherlands about the same. US was about 20th but their GDP is a lot greater so on absolute terms they they contribute the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper3 Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Not trying to go off the subject but i read a small article and have seen a few snippets on TV about one of the main problems in Somalia, The Oil companies left one hell of a mess ..... I just wonder how much help these big companies donate ? I do understand that none of us like seeing kids and the ederly suffer, and I am sure we would love to see them eat, but when we hear of our own people loosing jobs because of cut backs and our government saying we must pull our own belts in because we have a massive debt to pay off, it just seems utter madness I also agree, even though its not the kids and the elders fault..they really do need to be educated when it comes to family planning... its a very sad world run by idiots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcontroller Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 As long as I can remember lots of countries around the world have given money for disaster relief to Africa. Blue Peter many years ago, the great unwashed Bob Geldof, and so on. We have bought wells, goats, tools, seed, built schools and hospitals, Oh and all African debt was written off was it not, and we were all told if this was done Africa could then look after it’s self. So why are we back to square 1?. FC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 the issue with the areas in question is that they dont 'self regulate', they continue to bring children into the world they must know they cannot sustain and so a cycle of nature takes over and starts to regulate population levels. sending more money out (that we dont have) is throwing good money after bad. no one wants to see suffering, but the underlying issue will not be solved by us chucking some more of our overdraft at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 As long as I can remember lots of countries around the world have given money for disaster relief to Africa. Blue Peter many years ago, the great unwashed Bob Geldof, and so on. We have bought wells, goats, tools, seed, built schools and hospitals, Oh and all African debt was written off was it not, and we were all told if this was done Africa could then look after it’s self. So why are we back to square 1?. FC the issue with the areas in question is that they dont 'self regulate', they continue to bring children into the world they must know they cannot sustain and so a cycle of nature takes over and starts to regulate population levels. sending more money out (that we dont have) is throwing good money after bad. no one wants to see suffering, but the underlying issue will not be solved by us chucking some more of our overdraft at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK-GUN Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertan_J Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Looking at the military cutbacks makes me even more upset that we are again chucking money away in Africa. 52million isn't going to make a bit of difference over there but could make a massive difference to our forces serving in Afghanistan putting their lives at risk only to find out that the might not have a job shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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