Foreign Aid

[BLACK-GUN]

Looking at the military cutbacks makes me even more upset that we are again chucking money away in Africa. 52million isn't going to make a bit of difference over there but could make a massive difference to our forces serving in Afghanistan putting their lives at risk only to find out that the might not have a job shortly.

 

your right there mate, then perhaps our lads wont have to pay for their own kit from an army surplus store.

[AVB]

Interesting quotes from Cameron regarding 'trade not aid'

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14180863

[Raja Clavata]

Oh balls, I just typed a great long (and if I say so myself, highly informative ) piece and the damn browser crashed. Out of time now, but...

 

Interesting article that - trade as opposed to aid has been the typical approach of the Chinese in Africa. The West would need to tread very carefully with this in order to avoid more harm than good though. No doubt Cameron's advisors have made him aware of some of the issues of trade in the continent e.g. conflict minerals in the DRC

 

In my opinion one of the best things the West could do for Africa is to resend the missionaries to bring the continent up to date with latest Christian thinking as (middle and elite classes excepted) they are stuck in the dark ages and still tend to apply the bible literally.

 

I have personally witnessed the implications of this with reasonably well educated people in Kenya who believe if they follow all the rules of the bible then God will look after them. When things go wrong they look for a reason and their preachers / readings tell them it is the work of the devil. In some areas of Africa, in the extreme, these leads to children being branded witches (whereby they are at best expelled from the family unit and at worse, well, you can guess...).

 

I have lost count of the number of times, in my three visits to Kenya, I have told the people I meet to stop relying on God and take control of their own lives.

 

Similarly, traditional teachings of Islam, Christianity and Judaism advocate procreation and large families. In addition, and in the absence of any welfare state, the family is the primary economic unit. A high percentage of infant death also contribute to a high number of offspring being needed to attain adulthood, look after the needs of their parents when ederly and keep the family line going. This is just basic human nature.

 

The other things these nations need is the continuity of a stable government. Kenya now has one and that's part of the reason the refugees are heading there. It is also the reason that China is investing so heavily there too.

 

There is hope, and a precedence set for such change, as is / was the case with GEMAP in Liberia where the world community got a government in place through elections and then oversaw administration to reduce corruption.

 

Unfortunately though, Somalia appears beyond help and would probably require a concerted Western military operation to sort out, which isn't affordable and unlikely to happen until it's all too late.

 

By then I suspect that China will have taken Africa over completely.

[Evil Elvis]

Send in Duke Nukem...or Chuck Norris...................

[Mungler]

The Chinese aren't daft. They know that long term to feed and meet the needs of the Country's massive population it will need to look beyond its borders.

 

The Chinese are buying up and into huge chunks of Africa at rock bottom prices and striking deals that are onerous long term for the relevant Country / population but which the current incumbant governments are only too happy to strike for short term personal gain.

 

There will come a point where Chinese military / security services will start to occupy sections of Africa so as to protect legitimate Chinese business interests.

 

Zimbabwe was the bread basket of the world - they reckoned that if that Country alone was run and farmed properly it could supply the world.

 

Anyhows, giving away money and aid isn't the answer. As brutal as it sounds, we should follow the Chinese and start investing into regions and then using our military to protect those interests.

[henry d]

I`ll cut and paste my standard answer "Chemical Castration". Job done.

 

Not just for this answer but for all it`s ilk, who would be for forced starvation for all who were over 15% body fat ? 90% tax on all people earning more than say £20 a day.

 

These are people who cannot rely on weather and machinery just by the simple fact they were born and live in an area that has poor rainfall at times, some would argue that this was due to the developed worlds use of non-renewable energy sources.

 

Imagine the boot was on the other foot? Aye, milk of human kindness.........................

[henry d]

most of the money never reaches the poor FACT

 

That is because they don`t have an ASDA there

[henry d]

.....Oh and all African debt was written off was it not.....

 

Not.

[Mungler]

Money and resources are finite but the scale of human suffering across the planet appears to be infinite.

 

So then, people who choose to give generously to UK based charities and apply the doctrine of charity begins at home; are they less charitable than those that donate money abroad?

 

Discuss.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Mungler

[ack-ack]

Money and resources are finite but the scale of human suffering across the planet appears to be infinite.

 

So then, people who choose to give generously to UK based charities and apply the doctrine of charity begins at home; are they less charitable than those that donate money abroad?

 

Discuss.

 

Good one.

 

Probably in Gods eyes yes, they are less charitable as they would be differentiating between races / nations etc. God would probably say spread the love between all of our brothers and sisters rather than just our neighbours. As god doesn't exist though its largely irrelevant.

[jacksdad]

Would that the Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Pagan or Christian God?

 

Or all of them? Or not.

Edited July 18, 2011 by jacksdad

[Mungler]

Would I think less of someone who chose to put £10 of his / her own money (a finite resource) into a Salvation Army bucket as opposed to an Oxfam bucket?

 

Answer, no.

[Justintime]

If the war lords/genercidel ******** in charge of these third world countrys spent a fraction of the money they have on preventative measures instead of ak47s tanks etc they wouldnt be in the mess they are now even a sqigi makes provision for winter .You would think these dumb ***** would do the same it aint their first drought. i bet Mugarby has a bath every day,this realy boils my p.they kill all the dutch farmers who fed them etc then they starve now they aint got water instead of the men ******** and fighting give the lazy **** a shovel and tell them to dig for water

[henry d]

If the war lords/genercidel ******** in charge of these third world countrys spent a fraction of the money they have on preventative measures instead of ak47s tanks etc they wouldnt be in the mess they are now even a sqigi makes provision for winter .You would think these dumb ***** would do the same it aint their first drought. i bet Mugarby has a bath every day,this realy boils my p.they kill all the dutch farmers who fed them etc then they starve now they aint got water instead of the men ******** and fighting give the lazy **** a shovel and tell them to dig for water

 

The hell are you smoking ?? I presume you mean Mugabe ? El Presidente of Zimbabwe ? If so they aint anywhere near the drought area......

[henry d]

Money and resources are finite but the scale of human suffering across the planet appears to be infinite.

 

So then, people who choose to give generously to UK based charities and apply the doctrine of charity begins at home; are they less charitable than those that donate money abroad?

 

Discuss.

 

No, however one has to ask, which charity is liable to keep more humans alive and out of abject poverty/suffering/etc ?

[Raja Clavata]

It's all about choice, at least for those of us fortunate enough to have a choice.

[Raja Clavata]

If everyone who is self employed in the UK paid a comparable amount of tax to everyone who is PAYE there would be no need for anything like the cuts in public spending. Discuss.

[CZ550Kevlar]

If everyone who is self employed in the UK paid a comparable amount of tax to everyone who is PAYE there would be no need for anything like the cuts in public spending. Discuss.

 

I would bite my tongue for fear of offending those that are self employed but to be honest i don`t give a dogs hanging down bits, it ****** me off that i pay well over £500 a month of my wages every month in national insurance and god only knows how much tax each month and the sub human excuses for contract labor we use that are self employed all gloat about the fact they pay like £7 a month national insurance contributions and with the right accountant they are claiming back tax etc left right and centre for water, petrol from their wifes car, tax on their wifes car that they use for "work" and the list goes on, what a complete bloody farce, and people like that who sit and whine about cuts etc and don`t pay proper contributions are all that is screwed up with this country. Rant over and i`m not going to bother getting my tin hat as everything there is true and cannot be argued as to why someone who is self employed should pay less tax etc.

I stand by my comments.

[stevelee24]

where are bono and bob geldoff when you need them. they must be busy this month either that or there to busy spending some of the billions we give them last time.

[CZ550Kevlar]

where are bono and bob geldoff when you need them. they must be busy this month either that or there to busy spending some of the billions we give them last time.

 

Busy finding tax dodges, i think they know people are onto them.

[jacksdad]

I'm self employed, run a couple of small businesses, I really only want cash in hand and fully expect a tax rebate every year :blink:

This is to cover all the moaning whinging customers who moan about us yet expect the very best service at the lowest price when they want us to help

[AVB]

I would bite my tongue for fear of offending those that are self employed but to be honest i don`t give a dogs hanging down bits, it ****** me off that i pay well over £500 a month of my wages every month in national insurance and god only knows how much tax each month and the sub human excuses for contract labor we use that are self employed all gloat about the fact they pay like £7 a month national insurance contributions and with the right accountant they are claiming back tax etc left right and centre for water, petrol from their wifes car, tax on their wifes car that they use for "work" and the list goes on, what a complete bloody farce, and people like that who sit and whine about cuts etc and don`t pay proper contributions are all that is screwed up with this country. Rant over and i`m not going to bother getting my tin hat as everything there is true and cannot be argued as to why someone who is self employed should pay less tax etc.

I stand by my comments.

 

Absolutely agree. Everybody is calling themselves a consultant nowadays and setting themselves up as a Limited co. Paying less tax, NI, claiming back VAT(especially under the flat rate VAT scheme) etc. The problem is that employers are to some extent encouraging it - What with the overhead of employing staff nowadays it actually costs them less, the 'employee' gets more, tax revenue drops, everybody on PAYE pays more.

[Mungler]

If everyone who is self employed in the UK paid a comparable amount of tax to everyone who is PAYE there would be no need for anything like the cuts in public spending. Discuss.

 

Re: Financial disaster, I blame the City. It's a money merry-go-round. The problem is those that made fortunes off the back of this disaster have long since taken their bonuses and cleared off.

 

Re: Tax, as someone who owns a small business and pays a fortune in tax I genuinely have no idea what you are on about. We play our numbers by the book and I am in an over regulated industry so the result is I pay a fortune in tax, audit and accountancy charges. I think I would be happy with shorter working hours, no responsibility for the success or failure of the business and no responsibility for employees who count on getting paid each month.

 

Re: Charity, there is no difference between one pound 'given away' and another. The fact and the act is of 'giving'. If people exercise choice in where and who they give to, that is their business - it doesn't make them less charitable or racist.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Mungler

[mudpatten]

Interesting fact. Spelt backwards Mugabe`s name is ee bah gum proving beyond doubt that he is in fact a Yorkshireman.

[ack-ack]

If everyone who is self employed in the UK paid a comparable amount of tax to everyone who is PAYE there would be no need for anything like the cuts in public spending. Discuss.

 

Assuming that everybody that is self employed has the same continuity of work as their PAYE brethren? Self employed folk have no sick pay, no holiday pay and lack security. The piffling difference in tax hardly offsets this. How many PAYE employees would leave their secure numbers to go self employed and take the risk. Not many.

 

If there were more jobs full stop there would be less need for cuts to public spending but as a huge chunk are going to foreign workers what hope is there?

 

There would be less need for the cuts in public spending if the money earnt by UK foreign workers didn't get sent abroad. Discuss.