njc110381 Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Just had the FEO on the phone asking questions about my variation. I'm a bit confused to be honest so may have to ring them back. He asked what I wanted the 7-08 for? "well it's to replace the .243 I just sold" I replied. "Oh" was his answer. "And what about the .338?". Me - "the same as it always has been, for use abroad and for Deer in this country. Nothing's changed??". "Oh ok, the manager wants to know so I'll tell him that." What's that about? Nothing's changed apart from me wanting to have a 7-08 instead of a .243? Is it really that hard? I mean really?! They've lost my FAC so don't have that to read from but surely to god they have a record of what's written on it somewhere? I really did think this would be simple! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 at a rough guess justifying changing calibers as often as you do might have caused them an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I guess so! Well I'm hoping the 7-08 will be just what I'm after and I can stick with it. Who knows, but that .243 wasn't good! To be honest I wish I'd kept the 6.5! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I would image they think that the 7-08 and the .338 overlap more than the .243 and .338 did? It's not that unusual, my FEO had to justify a variation for second a .22 to his manager in exactly the same way any of us would need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 My inkling as Dunkield says is possibly too many overlapping uses. You've a .223 in there as well haven't you? still you never know might just have been asking the question and now got the answer. Ref loosing the ticket if your photo is just laser printed on as ours are its just a case of pressing the print button to get another copy of your cert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Yep, printed photo. No posh laminating like I've seen on some forces tickets! The 7-08 is a bit close to the .338? One's 2500ft-lbs and the other is 4500, that's about as close as .22lr and .22-250! Well a 7-08 isn't a big stuff calibre and the .338 isn't a small stuff calibre. The .223 and Hornet I thought may cause questions but it seems not? I was considering dropping the Hornet anyway once the .223 is here but they haven't even asked about that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 How long before they get you out of bed in the small hours for suspected Arms dealing? :yp: How many variations have you submitted, in say the past 12 months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 doesn't that only happen in essex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Let's hope Nick is in BASC and not SACS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 didn't essex also do the entire strip and cavity search as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I think I've had two variations in the last year. The .243 and this one. It's not like I've done loads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 you can just imagine a near future conversation ... njc110381 - I would like to put in for an RFD licence please FEO - Looking at your gun turnover, we thought you was already one guvna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRamsay Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Let's hope Nick is in BASC and not SACS Something up with sacs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 They prorably read your Mole shooting topic !!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Yep, printed photo. No posh laminating like I've seen on some forces tickets! The 7-08 is a bit close to the .338? One's 2500ft-lbs and the other is 4500, that's about as close as .22lr and .22-250! Well a 7-08 isn't a big stuff calibre and the .338 isn't a small stuff calibre. The .223 and Hornet I thought may cause questions but it seems not? I was considering dropping the Hornet anyway once the .223 is here but they haven't even asked about that! FYI the 7-08 rem hits harder in Ftlbs with a 140 grn bullet than a 308 win does with a 150 grn at just over 200 yds.. The 338 is overkill on any uk deer when run at lapua mag speeds. Basically for uk use the 7-08 will do it all, so saying "it isn't a big stuff calibre" might land you in it with the loss of the .338 unless you can prove good reason for non-uk use on the .338. There isn't anything in the UK you cannot drop with the 7-08 rem very effectively and you can bet they have that info to hand. You realy should have given the .243" more of a chance with different bullets. Firearms will except a .243" and a bigger deer calibre as a norm, but two bigger deer calibres and you might start to struggle. It is not unknown for them to say "prove your non-uk requirement" or say " for use abroad only" I know one experianced stalker who is also an RFD who got so restricted on his Africa gun he couldn't even buy ammo for it while in the UK I have a feeling you might be getting into the same situation i got into with having too many guns with the same quarry listed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I have a feeling you might be getting into the same situation i got into with having too many guns with the same quarry listed That shouldn't be a problem. There was a thread on another forum with some members having 6+ guns conditioned for deer alone. You only need to prove 'good reason' you don't have to 'need' each firearm. If you have deer stalking you could have 1 of every legal deer calibre in the country if you can afford it and have sufficient secure storage. 13.6 “Good reason” should be neither confined to need nor equated with desire. Most firearm certificate holders possess firearms for reasons of their profession, sport or recreation, and may properly wish to exercise discretion as to what types of firearms they choose for these purposes. On the other hand, a simple wish to own a particular sort of firearm is not in itself “good reason” without further supporting evidence of intentions. Chief officers of police should be mindful of case law (Anderson v Neilans (1940) and Joy v Chief Constable of Dumfries and Galloway (1966)) which suggests that the chief officer should consider the application firstly “from the standpoint of the applicant rather than from that of a possible objector”. “Good reason” will need to be demonstrated for each firearm to be held under section 1 of the 1968 Act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsm1968 Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 FYI the 7-08 rem hits harder in Ftlbs with a 140 grn bullet than a 308 win does with a 150 grn at just over 200 yds.. The 338 is overkill on any uk deer when run at lapua mag speeds. Basically for uk use the 7-08 will do it all, so saying "it isn't a big stuff calibre" might land you in it with the loss of the .338 unless you can prove good reason for non-uk use on the .338. There isn't anything in the UK you cannot drop with the 7-08 rem very effectively and you can bet they have that info to hand. You realy should have given the .243" more of a chance with different bullets. Firearms will except a .243" and a bigger deer calibre as a norm, but two bigger deer calibres and you might start to struggle. It is not unknown for them to say "prove your non-uk requirement" or say " for use abroad only" I know one experianced stalker who is also an RFD who got so restricted on his Africa gun he couldn't even buy ammo for it while in the UK I have a feeling you might be getting into the same situation i got into with having too many guns with the same quarry listed This all makes sense. The bold bit makes me laugh, as all the African guys buy ammo here as they can't buy it there. All the traditional big game calibers(416 rigby,500ne etc)use ammo produced by Kynock. This bloke was probobaly getting screwed on ammo produced down the road from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) I don't think that what I want is unreasonable. I have the .338 for use abroad and also use here when I need a spare (ie now, as I don't have another scoped Deer rifle because they're being slow!). Then I have my combi gun which has no scope as it messes up your perception of the target when shotgunning. So that's limited to close range in good light. It also gets hot after one shot, and after two throws your rounds all over the place! Neither the .338 or combi are moderated as moderators are illegal in many countries making it pointless on a gun wanted mainly for abroad. And the combi won't take one at all. So I need the 7-08 for an every day Deer rifle with scope and mod etc. All have very different uses and all are needed. Three rifles to shoot Deer isn't a lot when they're as varied as these. If I wanted a .243, 6.5x55 and 7-08 I could see your arguement, but all three are very different tools in my case, and I'd struggle to do what I do without any one of them. Other rifles I have after that are .22lr and .22 Hornet. Barely similar! The .223 and Hornet are close and I may well decide to drop the Hornet, but as I said earlier that's not what they're questioning? It's all very strange! Edited July 22, 2011 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 That shouldn't be a problem. There was a thread on another forum with some members having 6+ guns conditioned for deer alone. You only need to prove 'good reason' you don't have to 'need' each firearm. If you have deer stalking you could have 1 of every legal deer calibre in the country if you can afford it and have sufficient secure storage. 13.6 “Good reason” should be neither confined to need nor equated with desire. Most firearm certificate holders possess firearms for reasons of their profession, sport or recreation, and may properly wish to exercise discretion as to what types of firearms they choose for these purposes. On the other hand, a simple wish to own a particular sort of firearm is not in itself “good reason” without further supporting evidence of intentions. Chief officers of police should be mindful of case law (Anderson v Neilans (1940) and Joy v Chief Constable of Dumfries and Galloway (1966)) which suggests that the chief officer should consider the application firstly “from the standpoint of the applicant rather than from that of a possible objector”. “Good reason” will need to be demonstrated for each firearm to be held under section 1 of the 1968 Act. good post buddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Well my FAC landed on the doormat today. I'm well happy, got all that I asked for rifle wise so I'm off to buy the .223 and 7-08 later this week............. And a shed load of ammo before I send it back! I've gone back to listed quarry species. No other lawful quarry! Oh well, at least they haven't forgotten to list all of my guns or listed things that I haven't got (and yes this has happened in the past)! So yet again, back it goes! Oh well, the important bit is sorted so at least I can get the guns and some more ammo. I was getting low on some of it and starting to worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 That shouldn't be a problem. There was a thread on another forum with some members having 6+ guns conditioned for deer alone. You only need to prove 'good reason' you don't have to 'need' each firearm. If you have deer stalking you could have 1 of every legal deer calibre in the country if you can afford it and have sufficient secure storage. 13.6 “Good reason” should be neither confined to need nor equated with desire. Most firearm certificate holders possess firearms for reasons of their profession, sport or recreation, and may properly wish to exercise discretion as to what types of firearms they choose for these purposes. On the other hand, a simple wish to own a particular sort of firearm is not in itself “good reason” without further supporting evidence of intentions. Chief officers of police should be mindful of case law (Anderson v Neilans (1940) and Joy v Chief Constable of Dumfries and Galloway (1966)) which suggests that the chief officer should consider the application firstly “from the standpoint of the applicant rather than from that of a possible objector”. “Good reason” will need to be demonstrated for each firearm to be held under section 1 of the 1968 Act. Shouldn't does not equate to isn't in many Firearms depts- been there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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