Blunderbuss Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I was a little surprised to see a mounted badger head, in the terrier tent at the CLA yesterday. I think the stand was the working terrier society, or some such. Now it looked old and moth eaten, and was no doubt killed long before such things were illegal or could even have been road kill for all I know and I'm not suggesting any illegality but from a PR perspective was it wise? I know the whole subject of badgers is hugely emotive, especially at the moment, and I'm sure I'll get loads of "so what" comments, but this isn't about the rights and wrongs of legal culling, that debate is for another thread. What it's about for me is that the message that could well be taken away by an uninformed, previously neutral MOP is that terrier men are illegal badger diggers/baiters. I'm not saying they are BTW! Just what others might think. Lack of self awareness? PR disaster? Failure to perceive how others might see them? I think so. What do you reckon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 agree with you on a personal level, i like badgers, but i also know a few terrier men who are still royally peed off at the ban, i can sympathize with them to a degree, their personal choice of past time has been rudely taken away from them by a bunch of whining old pussies with nothing better to do than bitch and moan and make other peoples lives as dull as their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMcC Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I like Badgers too, braised slowly in a thick sauce. Roasted in tinfoil is also another way to enjoy them, then when cold thinly sliced in sandwiches with a pickled onion. My goodness that takes me back a long time, way before I was married. I doubt my wife would even let me bring one into the house these days, even if they did change the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 You have got to be carefull what you say about badgers on an open forum in case anti's take offence. So please all restrict yoursef's to posting pictures of head shot rabbits and dismembered foxes in the correct section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Tackling badgers with terriers used to be a good way of taking the badgers alive. Not all land owners would want the badgers killed so the terriers would corner them until they could be dug out, bagged up and relocated. What's wrong with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I like Badgers too, braised slowly in a thick sauce. Roasted in tinfoil is also another way to enjoy them, then when cold thinly sliced in sandwiches with a pickled onion. My goodness that takes me back a long time, way before I was married. I doubt my wife would even let me bring one into the house these days, even if they did change the law. Eddie Considering they are one of the prime harbourers of bTb I would be that enthusiastic about the idea of bunging another one in the bottom oven of the Rayburn these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Eddie Considering they are one of the prime harbourers of bTb I would be that enthusiastic about the idea of bunging another one in the bottom oven of the Rayburn these days. Never eaten Billy Hams then chap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 What's wrong with that? Where does one start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintime Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Dont you know thats the general concensis were all blood thursty gun toteing killers Thats what they will think anyway and no amount of talking will change their minds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 bbc says we must love the badger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Dont you know thats the general concensis were all blood thursty gun toteing killers Thats what they will think anyway and no amount of talking will change their minds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Never eaten Billy Hams then chap? Nope I'm all in favour of eating what you shoot or catch. But there is a limit to just how far I'm willing to go to maintain that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Where does one start? Horses for courses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpicide Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Some of us older terrier men remember when it was legal to dig and relocate badgers at the request of landowners there is a photo of a badger digging club removing Badgers from Chequers a well known northeastern QC has the photograph in his hall. The pr thing is easy to explain if I'm not much mistaken you were probably on the NWTF stand. You should have spoken to some of them on the stand particularly Barrie Wade he would have told you the traditional role of the working terrier and its quarry and also the modern role and the legalities of using terriers in legitamate pest control both in England and in Scotland. I work with Barrie in the NWTF and you should check out our website hope this helps to dispel your misgivings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Horses for courses As is so often the case. What once was considered acceptable practices, has now been shown to be flawed. Time and understanding moves on. Don't get me wrong. I m in favour of a badger cull, and I have no problem with what was done in the past. I just believe that what was done then should be left in the past, and we should adopt better, modern methods of dealing with the problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) As is so often the case. What once was considered acceptable practices, has now been shown to be flawed. Time and understanding moves on. Don't get me wrong. I m in favour of a badger cull, and I have no problem with what was done in the past. I just believe that what was done then should be left in the past, and we should adopt better, modern methods of dealing with the problems. And the modern methods leave no room for removing the problem elswewhere. Your left with the cull as the only feasible option which is not the best option for any interested party. Edited July 25, 2011 by hambone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMcC Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 There was a time when it was left to the Farmer that had problems to sort it out and everything was fine. My job, better than doing a paper round, 10/- for the badger and 15/- for the skin. The Badger was sometimes taken by the local pub for Badger Feasts where the local Gentry dressed up in Edwardian clothing and played piped music. Badgers were not only carriers of TB but also their digging was the cause of banks collapsing, ditches being blocked, caused tractors to sink or fall over and even small country lanes being blocked by their digging. The problems we came across was terrier men digging badgers and 'relocating' them to areas fenced with sheets of galvanise forming 'baiting' areas. That was the cause of the public outcry that eventually got them protected. Badgers can and do travel miles over night, sometimes sleeping in ditches if they don't make it back to their sett by daybreak. The same families use the same setts year in and year out, just enlarging it as the group grows so it would appear they have some sort of 'radar' similar to a homing pidgeon. So relocating Badgers is not a viable option. The other thing I have noticed over the years is that Badgers are no longer nocturnal. I have seen them in the middle of the afternoon with cracked and sunburnt backs being pestered by flys. I'm not sure about a cull but I do believe they should be taken off the protected list to allow those that are affected by them to take reasonable action. The only problem I have with that is if Badger Baiting were to return and that I do not agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 So relocating Badgers is not a viable option. At least some of us have an understanding the problem and the possible practical solutions. For others, as always ignorance is bliss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Well said A good post by EMcC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodit Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Horses for courses Carbonade flamande is a good course for horse (as well as beef) :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) At least some of us have an understanding the problem and the possible practical solutions. For others, as always ignorance is bliss. I don't recall anybody suggesting that the BTB problem could be resolved with a few Terriers Nogbad. The OP was concerned that a badger head (albeit a rather moth eaten one) that was on display at the CLA could have been a PR lead balloon and now the threads morphed into the rights and wrongs of culling (which the OP expressly stated that this thread was not about). I suggested that that most folk probably didn't know that Terriers were an excellent non lethal method of controlling Billy. As EMcC stated the 'relocation' was open to interpretation from the savage element and it was images of these bouts that set the wheels in motion for banning hunting with dogs. Folk will always remember the shaky camera work in some shocking badly lit blood bath long after they will remember the noble work of the Terrier men. Edited July 26, 2011 by ack-ack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) As is so often the case. What once was considered acceptable practices, has now been shown to be flawed. Time and understanding moves on. Don't get me wrong. I m in favour of a badger cull, and I have no problem with what was done in the past. I just believe that what was done then should be left in the past, and we should adopt better, modern methods of dealing with the problems. You could say the same about controlling rabbits, they thought the traditional methods were outdated so they introduced Myxi. Deer stalking will be seen to be outdated when they introduce contraceptives for deer. Driven game outdated and cruel, pigeon shooting, they can sterilise cock birds, the list goes on. Everything has flaws and because new things are created doesn't mean they arent flawed. I bet you are in favor of shooting them....if they were dug they would be removed as a group. You still probably think that shooting is a quick death but with time and understanding realise that this method is flawed. Edited July 26, 2011 by Richie10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Horses for courses ..and French dinner plates. Had horse at a road-side cafe in Paris on my 25th b'day (inter-railing), very tasty. Nial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted July 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Thanks for all your views, some interesting reading. As said in the first post, this was never about the rights and wrongs of controlling badgers. I'm still reading up on the science and pros and cons of that to control bovine TB but accept there may well be a case for it. My point was that a tent with a very high traffic throughput of people who didn't stay long enough to find out why, were presented with with an image of a dead badger and dogs. I'm sure many will have made a mental connection between the two and drawn some incorrect conclusions to the detriment of law abiding terrier men. I just think it was ill advised from a PR perspective, because only those with the time and inclination to stop and chat (a minority) would have had the context explained to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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