THEINVISIBLESCARECROW Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Barrel length, choke, shot size, amount of pellets, speed of the cartridge, fibre or plastic wads, Pigeon speed, swing speed, lead, direction of flight, wind speed, wind direction, gun mount & fit. The variables are stacked against us to hit a Pigeon in flight with a shotgun so how many pellets actually could hit a Pigeon in flight ?? Just a simple experiment shooting a static decoy, the sight bead was just above the top of the decoy so the top barrel was covering the bulk of the body, bottom barrel fired. 20 paces distance regardless of actuall measured yards. 30" barrels with 1/4 choke, 1oz 6.5 shot, plastic wad. How many pellets made a hole not counting grazeing marks & not counting hits in the tail feather area (2). Guess then watch the vid. http://www.youtube.com/user/GUNVIDER?feature=mhee#p/a/u/0/VYzev59WO8k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 (edited) Although I can't watch the video as I'm in Oz and the wireless broadband wifi speed is slow you could count the bounce off's with live pigeons. I guess at 2 penetrations however. But - a O/U should give 3/4 just above the bead anyway (more or less I think) therefore you were out of the centre of the pattern. Edited August 12, 2011 by markm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEINVISIBLESCARECROW Posted August 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Although I can't watch the video as I'm in Oz and the wireless broadband wifi speed is slow you could count the bounce off's with live pigeons. I guess at 2 penetrations however. But - a O/U should give 3/4 just above the bead anyway (more or less I think) therefore you were out of the centre of the pattern. Way out with the holes but absolutely spot on with the pattern & for me a valuable lesson learnt & worth wasting an old decoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tignme Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Am not knocking op but 20 paces equates to approx 17 yds, all shotguns regardless of choke has a pattern open up before 16 yds so you would get a lot of pellets hitting at short range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beretta Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 i cant understand why you would put the 'bead' above the decoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 (edited) Am not knocking op but 20 paces equates to approx 17 yds, all shotguns regardless of choke has a pattern open up before 16 yds so you would get a lot of pellets hitting at short range. 30 yards is the norm and 30" circle? I thought it was 1/3 below 2/3 above the bead? depends on gun and mount with birds in flight i thought you aimed at the feet? i cant understand why you would put the 'bead' above the decoy ME too. i guess with 400+ pellets 20+ would strike? but it should be more Edited August 12, 2011 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 i cant understand why you would put the 'bead' above the decoy Me neither, most shotguns are sighted to throw roughly 2/3rd of their pattern above the bead and 1/3 below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tignme Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 If you are having a gun fitted by an experienced gunsmith he will set you up at 16 yds to check where your gun is shooting. 30 yds n 30inch circle is to check your pattern with types of cartridges and different chokes. 400 pellets,you must be using skeet nines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEINVISIBLESCARECROW Posted August 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Interesting comments lads, thanks. They certainly will help any newbies to shotty shooting so keep them comeing. I'm working silly hours over the w/end so I'll respond next week besides some other interesting replies might come up. Why did I shoot the way I did ?? Simple, regardless of what anyone thinks about their gun / cart's etc or what they believe when someone tells much needed info there is nothing like finding out for yourself in the field & I simply hadn't a clue. Why did I aim the bead high ?? well 20 paces is the closest decoy I use in my patterns & some close birds have been shot at this sort of range. Think of bore sighting with the barrels on a rest, aim the bead at the center & the top barrel will be a fraction low on the target & the second barrel will be below the target, no worries as the spread will take care of things so you can still hit with a miss ?? I wanted to assume the barrel was pointing at the deek not the bead so hopefully the center of the spread will hit the decoy, all theory at the time !!! I found the pellets kicked up the dirt before the decoy moved so I assume the bulk of the pellets were still quite tight & low so from that if I shoot the bottom barrel first at a close bird I do need to aim slightly high as suggested by the test aiming the bead high & the gun shooting low, I'e I'll now not use the bead to aim but blot out the Pigeon. Without testing I now assume the top barrel for a more distant bird should be aimed with the bead blotting out my aim point. It seems the pellets that struck the decoy was an outer part of the pattern & It wasn't very open at that distance. Also looking at the strike holes I did not get random open pattern strikes but blochy smallish groups & small open spaces. Good enough to knock down a flying Pigeon though. From what you read it would seem that shotgun pellets just opens up into a string & shows up as a circle on a pattern plate. My first shotgun was a single barrel & from tests I discovered that the pattern stayed quite tight even at 50yds. As I originally said, so many variables to throw a spanner in the works & I intend to eliminate a few of my own & hopefully this & comments from yourselves will help others. In answer to those that assume or thinks a gun is set up to throw a pattern with a certain percentage above & below the bead you's actually commenting without personal experiance about where the pattern does actually go from your gun / choke & cart' combo, who would care if they get knocked out of the sky most of the time, If It works why try to fix it, well to help those newbies who can knock some out of the sky & totally baffled why they miss others. Experiment & discover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Just one little observation to take into account as well! If we are to assume that your decoy os the same size and a live woodie in the feather then you need to take off something like 10 or 15 percent for the actual size of the bird that the pellets might hit as some of them would just pass through the feathers without hitting any "flesh"! Watching the video carefully it did seem that the majority of the shot pattern hit the ground just below the decoy, but that could be my eyes playing tricks on me - They often do when I have a gun in my hands. Even so worth thinking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 You really need to shoot at some cardboard to find out where your pattern is going because the barrels should be pointing at the same place, and that place wont be below your bead for either barrel unless there is something wrong with the gun. You make some interesting videos, keep them coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 The reason there were so many gaps in the pattern and the seek wasn't totally riddled with pellets (at 20 yards it should be stuffed with them) is that you didn't hit it with the centre of the pattern. You never need to aim high to allo for the upper/lower tube, the POI is exactly the same once it's out a few feet from the muzzle. Try the same Experiment again and put the bead on the bottom of the decoy and see how many more strikes you get. I've shot birds/clays from 4/5 yards out to a fair bit further and you don't need to adjust for either barrel. Good that your experimenting though!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Love the knowledge & info on here. Learning so much on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) You cant patten a gun, nor find out where its shooting by shooting at the floor. Weather the pattern is point of aim or higher, depends on how much rib you can see, the more rib, the higher the patten. If you see no rib and just the bead, then the center of the pattern will be on the bead (point of aim) ( and assuming the cast is correct), as the rib is tapered. Edited August 16, 2011 by chrispti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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