mudpatten Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 It always amuses me that the most vociferous complainants about the alleged shortcomings of the field performance of steel shot are those who have never used it! What the CPSA article actually says is "If you fire steel shot through an entirely inappropriate gun it may damage it." We all know that. It is a mischievious "non story" designed to panic the ignorant. There have been two similar sea changes in the recent history of shooting both of which generated the same type of hysterical reaction from the ignorant. The first was the introduction in the late 19th century of nitro powders to replace the universally used black powder. The shooting press was full of horror stories about how the new nitro powders would blow up your old BP proofed Damascus barreled gun. Many of these tales were actually true and the solution was to buy a gun made for the new high pressure powders. Sound familiar? The second was the introduction of the 3" cartridge where the shooting press was full of stories of people blowing up short chambered guns by firing wholly unsuitable 3" ammunition through it. Does that sound familiar as well? The solution to that problem was the same. Buy a new gun. Technologically, very little in this world remains the same for ever. We are in another period of change and it is always interesting to see how the Victorians, who saw the greatest social and engineering changes in the history of mankind within their lifetimes, rode effortlessly on a tidal wave of change which they expected and embraced, whilst many of us seem utterly unable to do the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I have been shooting and handloading steel shot for over 20 years, it became mandatory here in the very early 90's. Even before we were forced to use it I was experimenting with it and choke constrictions as the handwriting was on the wall regarding lead and waterfowl. With the proper barrel and choke I have found NO damage due to steel. The barrel I shoot has had the forcing cone lengthened and I shoot no more than .020 constriction or improved modified. You absolutely don't need any more choke than that for steel, that comes after countless patterns and discussion with some of the top ballisticians in this country. One thing I got right early on is shooting the largest size steel my gun would allow and again by changing choke tubes you can change that. I shoot T shot for passing geese and BB for passing ducks and decoyed geese out of an SP 10 with .018 constriction with excellent success. The plastic steel wads are much thicker than lead wads, if you are shooting steel without a plastic wad I would advise another approach or another metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I agree with all of the above, but just want to add a couple of other points. Loading your own cartridges has added benefits, meaning you can add extra velocity to your loads. A lot of people don't realise that by volume, steel has many more pellets per ounce, meaning that a 1 1/2 oz load of steel has the same amount of pellets as a 2 1/8 lead load, or 1 1/4 oz steel equates to 1 3/4 of lead by volume. Therefore you can up the velocity (say 1600 fps) to that which you can't with lead and still have very potent load. So, a 1 1/4 BB steel load at over 1500 fps would compare very favourably to a magnum lead load. You've got it right Motty you don't need over 1 1/2 oz. of steel to kill about anything. The pellet count in that load is huge(steel being that much lighter than lead). Better to sacrifice charge weight for more speed with steel as it is pretty inefficent, I am yet to bruise a bird to death. I shoot 1 1/2 oz. loads that chronograph around 1400fps. and kill geese higher than I should admit to( verified by Mr. Leica). Remember in a lot of cases size does matter, in this case it's pellet diameter not load weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I go for steel, just one thing i have witnesed is an experianced fowler dropping stuff equally as well (ok better if i am honest) as myself (i was on 4's) he with no7! He did this by being a very good shot and waiting for the easier shots. I do feel mention of 40-45 yds is pushing it though. On the mention of Heavy shot, should these not be treated as steel as it is very hard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I go for steel, just one thing i have witnesed is an experianced fowler dropping stuff equally as well (ok better if i am honest) as myself (i was on 4's) he with no7! He did this by being a very good shot and waiting for the easier shots. I do feel mention of 40-45 yds is pushing it though. On the mention of Heavy shot, should these not be treated as steel as it is very hard? heavyshot is way harder than steel shot. funny how no-one has claimed its evil yet. but i bet a fair few barrels were scored upon development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 A mate of mine had a matched pair of DT10 tubes wrecked by the stuff. They bought him new ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I`ve used significant amounts of 23/4" and 3" steel through my old Beretta 686 and there is`nt a mark in either of the bores which still mike up true at proof dimensions. Might I respectfully ask what "wrecked" actually means in these circumstances? Were any photos taken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 This was the early heavy shot. He put about 500 through the two guns on the one day, when he gave the guns to be cleaned the chap cleaning them brought it to hiss attention- scored the inside of the chambers down to the choke. He didn't take pictures but I was shown them as I was with him at the time and it looked pretty bad. Hes not had issues since and he shoots a phenomenal amount of hevi shot still, they obviously changed something since, maybe the thickness of wad I don't know. I was given a load of them by someone I worked with last year and they have done no damage to my gun although I don't shoot the volume he does, I've still got 500 left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 This was the early heavy shot. He put about 500 through the two guns on the one day, when he gave the guns to be cleaned the chap cleaning them brought it to hiss attention- scored the inside of the chambers down to the choke. He didn't take pictures but I was shown them as I was with him at the time and it looked pretty bad. Hes not had issues since and he shoots a phenomenal amount of hevi shot still, they obviously changed something since, maybe the thickness of wad I don't know. I was given a load of them by someone I worked with last year and they have done no damage to my gun although I don't shoot the volume he does, I've still got 500 left. Who the heck has reason or funds to shoot 500 heavy shot in a single day :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Who the heck has reason or funds to shoot 500 heavy shot in a single day :o Someone who gives their guns to someone else for cleaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 You got it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 This was the early heavy shot. He put about 500 through the two guns on the one day, when he gave the guns to be cleaned the chap cleaning them brought it to hiss attention- scored the inside of the chambers down to the choke. He didn't take pictures but I was shown them as I was with him at the time and it looked pretty bad. Hes not had issues since and he shoots a phenomenal amount of hevi shot still, they obviously changed something since, maybe the thickness of wad I don't know. I was given a load of them by someone I worked with last year and they have done no damage to my gun although I don't shoot the volume he does, I've still got 500 left. The old hevi-shot had barrel shaped shot with razor sharp edges! the newer stuff is more spherical. I have never used the old stuff, but have so with the newer. No scoring at all Wasn't a man called Gordon who was cleaning the guns by any chance I remember him telling me a very similar story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Nope the chap cleaning was steve. We choppeda few open and the shop was pear/figure 8 shaped if that makes sense. No problems since and he and another mate shoot vast quantities with no I'll effects. I'm hanging onto mine for now, in two years it'll be worth more than gold! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 You've got it right Motty you don't need over 1 1/2 oz. of steel to kill about anything. The pellet count in that load is huge(steel being that much lighter than lead). Better to sacrifice charge weight for more speed with steel as it is pretty inefficent, I am yet to bruise a bird to death. I shoot 1 1/2 oz. loads that chronograph around 1400fps. and kill geese higher than I should admit to( verified by Mr. Leica). Remember in a lot of cases size does matter, in this case it's pellet diameter not load weight. That's why i've started loading T. I've been told that if the pattern can be held, then T will knock down geese at 60 - 70 yards with only a modest (1400 fps) muzzle velocity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Hope you`ll forgive me for pointing out that this thread was about alleged damage caused by steel shot. Hevi shot is not made of "steel", (actually soft iron), It is a tungsten polymer. So, in point of fact the DT 10 barrels were not wrecked by steel shot but by another, completely different non toxic material. Not steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemini52 Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 I use game bore 24 gram steel on clays never use anything over half choke,have a bettinsoli, remimgton 870, browning maxus hunter, must have gone though 1000,s of them not a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Hevi shot is not made of "steel", (actually soft iron), It is a tungsten polymer. Hevishot is a dull metallic grey compound metal. It's a combination of Tungsten, Nickel, and Iron, amalgamated in approximately a 50%, 35% and 15% mix, respectively. Hevishot has an average density of 12.0g/cc hevishot is an alloy, not a polymer blend like itx,itm, niceshot etc.... they are completely different structures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratman2 Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 I've read all the posts in this thread and I'm amazed it's not degraded into a name calling and slanging match. I've been involved in discussions of steel shot on another forum in the past and there's a bounty on my head, dead or alive. The article in Pull was interesting and I'm looking forward to part two. I can't post the whole article cos I aint got one of them scanner things, but here is a copy of my letter that was published at the same time. To follow on, if I may, from the letter by Mr Dunn on page 44 in the August edition of Pull, ‘Steel shot’ Whilst I can’t speak with any authority on ballistics, and I suspect for the vast majority of shooters, ballistics bears no importance to their sport at all, I can speak of my experience in the use of steel shot. I have been using steel shot for several years, as have many people I shoot with and not once have I witnessed any form of ricochet off a clay target. The felt recoil is no different to the equivalent lead load. Yes, the steel shot is encased in a plastic wad, but so is lead shot. Fibre wad steel shot cartridges are also available. I have used steel shot in a variety of guns including a Miroku MK38 trap gun, ¾ and full chokes, many thousands of steel shot went through that gun with no ill effects, a cheap and cheerful Rizini ¼ and ½ chokes, a Hatsan semi using ¾ choke etc. I strongly feel the myth that steel shot damages the bores is due to nothing more than simple scare mongering, by people who refuse to accept change. Just my humble take on the use of steel shot. Rob Covill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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