Are mud tyres suitable for winter use and on road?

[Dr W]

Hi all

 

I'm thinking of buying some wheels and winter tyres for my Range Rover P38 for the coming winter.

 

I've seen some wheels with 235/70/16 BF Goodrich Mud Terrain tyres and I'm wondering if these are ok or too excessive for mostly using on the roads in winter which are mostly wet with possibly some snow for a few weeks.

 

I also need to drive on forrestry type tracks around a shoot and some muddy grass tracks and I find that my Scorpions (on 18" hurricanes) do ok for the most part until I go on the wet grass and then they start sliding all over the place.

 

So the question I'm trying to answer is whether it's actually worth bothering with a set of winter tyres or just keep some snow socks in the boot in case of difficulties (and just not drive down the grass/mud tracks).

 

If it is worth getting some winter tyres then should I just go for a set with all-terrain tyres or go the whole hog and go for these ones with the mud-terrain tyres.

 

Thanks for any advice, haven't gone down this route before so no knowledge about specialist tyres and yes I have done searches but nothing really answers my question.

 

Cheers

[Billy.]

I have the A/T and they are perfect for mud, road and snow. I've been out lamping in the pouring rain on a turned over field and pulled cars up a snowy hill.

 

I think the M/T are a bit excessive, unless you're planning on spending 90% of your driving across fields.

 

I've actually not driven on wet grass, so I can't comment on that.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Billy.

[brash1]

I just bought some insa turbo saharas for my disco which are mud terrains and was worried about road noise, as i also use it for work, but have to say the road noise is none existant and are fantastic off road.

[Redditch]

AT and MT tyres are okay for TRACTION in snow, it´s when you come to going round corners fast and braking quickly that you´ll run into trouble, that´s why there are SPECIAL WINTER tyres made, that have lots of fine lammellen in the tread.

Goof 4x4 or van winter tyres are very expensive, mine cost me £ 146.00 EACH when buying five, and that was the cheapest place I could find, but these are German made, and I never even slowed in the south of Germany or the Belgian Ardenne. You pay for quality, and with winter tyres get the best you can.

 

Avoid, USA and cheap EASTERN European or FAR EAST makes !! Buy French, German, or Italian makes, and you´ll find you´ll be better off, as they are designed for European winters. Most of the other countries just stick an ice symbol on an AT tyre and redesignate it a SNOW tyre.

ADAC website in Germany gives excellent tests every year on the newest winter tyres and what they perform like in dry, mud, ice, and of course snow

[pavman]

i run on BFG all terain all year on my Ranger

[Dr W]

Thanks for the info guys

 

Think I'm going to ditch the mud terrain tyre idea and either try and find some wheels on all-terrain although Vredestein Winter Extreme seem to get good reviews but they're £140 + fitting

[Redditch]

With Winter tyres, you get what you pay for, but the most expensive aren´t always the best, and they also vary in performance according to size, I would check the ADAC (German version of AA) site before deciding.

 

It all depends on how much you value the safety of yourself, your passengers, and other road users really

[Billy.]

Thanks for the info guys

 

Think I'm going to ditch the mud terrain tyre idea and either try and find some wheels on all-terrain although Vredestein Winter Extreme seem to get good reviews but they're £140 + fitting

 

You were going for BF M/T and then swapped to another brand. I would stick with the BF's, but it's going to be £130-150 a corner.

 

Check the A/T's come with a little snowflake on them, so they're a winter tyre.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Billy.

[Dr W]

Not swapped to another brand still think I'll go for BFG All Terrain just saying that I'd heard good things about these about the Vredestein.

 

Problem about the ADAC is that they seem to be only interested in road tyres for cars rather than 4x4s in that their highest rated tyre the Michlin Alpin A4 doesn't seem to be available in large sizes (from what I can see so far).

Edited September 23, 2011 by Dr W

[rimfire4969]

i run on BFG all terain all year on my Ranger

Got these on my 110, no problems

[Redditch]

You were going for BF M/T and then swapped to another brand. I would stick with the BF's, but it's going to be £130-150 a corner.

 

Check the A/T's come with a little snowflake on them, so they're a winter tyre.

The snowflake is a favourite trick of tyre manufacturers. Some that have it are true M&S tyres, but many just have it banged onto standard AT tyres as a sales magnet, and are pretty much useless in Snow and Ice (American companies are well known for this, as their is NO LEGAL requirement for winter tyres to comply to)

The German ADAC tests Winter (And Summer) tyres every year, and are very good.

 

Not swapped to another brand still think I'll go for BFG All Terrain just saying that I'd heard good things about these about the Vredestein.

 

Problem about the ADAC is that they seem to be only interested in road tyres for cars rather than 4x4s in that their highest rated tyre the Michlin Alpin A4 doesn't seem to be available in large sizes (from what I can see so far).

They do test for 4x4 and van tyres too, but you have to search for them. If needed you can contact them (In English if needed) on their website and ask for their recommendations in your required size

[Redditch]

Just Google winter tyres in the size you wish, but remember that winter tyres are normally not as WIDE as summer tyres, so they are easier to cut through the snow, rather than sliding over the top.

 

For instance, mine would normally be 275/75 R15, but in winter I would have 275/80 R15

Edited September 23, 2011 by Redditch

[Dr W]

Isn't 275/60/15 a lower profile tyre rather than a narrower tyre when compared to 275/75/15?

Edited September 23, 2011 by Dr W

[Catweazle]

I run BFG muds on my P38 HSE all year, no problems at all. I actually prefer it with the 16" wheels and muds than with the 18" wheels and ATs, it tramlines on the ATs but not with the MTs. The MTs are a bit noisy though.

[Redditch]

Isn't 275/60/15 a lower profile tyre rather than a narrower tyre when compared to 275/75/15?

Sorry, meant to hit 255 LOL

Whichever is the smaller width, is generally the Winter tyre, your tyre depot will advise you.

 

On the continent most people had a second set of wheels (Usually steel) just to keep winter tyres on, saves having the alloys eaten by the salt. You can usually pick up a set of cheap rims from a scrappy, put a coat of steel wheels or black over them, and good as new.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Redditch

[Redditch]

I run BFG muds on my P38 HSE all year, no problems at all. I actually prefer it with the 16" wheels and muds than with the 18" wheels and ATs, it tramlines on the ATs but not with the MTs. The MTs are a bit noisy though.

That is a disadvantage with M&S tyres generally, some will be noisy, some will use more fuel, some will wear quicker too. If you´re lucky you´ll get a set that are almost as quiet as summer tyres, and good on fuel and wear too

Winter tyres have a softer rubber compound generally compared to summer tyres, and the ADAC advice is to fit winter tyres as soon as the average temp drops below 7c PLUS !!!! In Germany if you have an accident after the ADAC has given a winter weather (I.e. advise to fit tyres) warning, you will not be covered by insurance, and the police if will give you a fine of 40.00 euro´s and a point for each tyre that doesn´t comply, even if you only get stuck somewhere, or are involved in an accident that isn´t your fault.

This applies to foreign drivers too, so if you´re driving to your winter sports through Germany, make sure you have winter tyres fitted or it could get expensive.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Redditch

[SniperR10]

I have BF Goodrich AT on my Grand Cherokee fitted them about a year ago. They are great low road noise and great in all conditions. I actually found they stopped a lot better than the pirelli road tyres i had installed before, even in the wet.... They have seen snow, deep sand( Beach fishing) and the muddy farm tracks and also done extremely well on a recent off-road day.I do mostly road probably 90%. I Would highly recomend.

 

For your information i have 245/75/16's fitted

Edited September 23, 2011 by SniperR10

[al4x]

That is a disadvantage with M&S tyres generally, some will be noisy, some will use more fuel, some will wear quicker too. If you´re lucky you´ll get a set that are almost as quiet as summer tyres, and good on fuel and wear too

Winter tyres have a softer rubber compound generally compared to summer tyres, and the ADAC advice is to fit winter tyres as soon as the average temp drops below 7c PLUS !!!! In Germany if you have an accident after the ADAC has given a winter weather (I.e. advise to fit tyres) warning, you will not be covered by insurance, and the police if will give you a fine of 40.00 euro´s and a point for each tyre that doesn´t comply, even if you only get stuck somewhere, or are involved in an accident that isn´t your fault.

This applies to foreign drivers too, so if you´re driving to your winter sports through Germany, make sure you have winter tyres fitted or it could get expensive.

 

 

the downside with winter tyres is they are road tyres so not aimed at driving in mud, as we get about 2 days of snow and 200 days of mud in the UK you want something good in mud. For your use Mud terrains will be a bit ott unless its just a shooting vehicle. From personal experience BFG AT's are far better on ice / snow then grabber AT2's but there is a fairly large cost difference

[Redditch]

the downside with winter tyres is they are road tyres so not aimed at driving in mud, as we get about 2 days of snow and 200 days of mud in the UK you want something good in mud. For your use Mud terrains will be a bit ott unless its just a shooting vehicle. From personal experience BFG AT's are far better on ice / snow then grabber AT2's but there is a fairly large cost difference

Good (Read expensive) winter tyres are also excellent in mud, which is why they will have M&S (Mud and Snow) as well as the * (Snow flake) sign on the side wall. But like I said, good ones tend to be expensive.

[al4x]

they won't be as good as a decent AT tyre though and thats the point on a UK 4x4

[Redditch]

they won't be as good as a decent AT tyre though and thats the point on a UK 4x4

Whatever tyre you get, be it summer road, snow, ice, or mud tyre, it will always be a compromise. On the continent most people have at least two sets of tyres and wheels, one set for summer, and the other for winter. Just most people in the UK haven´t got round to this style of thinking, because it´s not law to have winter tyres in winter yet.

[al4x]

we also don't have the weather for it, but I wouldn't want a summer tyre mud tyre and winter tyre on my 4x4 when an AT is acceptable for the lot

[Redditch]

we also don't have the weather for it, but I wouldn't want a summer tyre mud tyre and winter tyre on my 4x4 when an AT is acceptable for the lot

Winter tyres increase stopping power and cornering adhesion at 7 degrees Celcius and below, which is why on the continent most countries have a law making sure you change tyres as soon as winter approaches. The UK doesn´t have this law yet, but there´s a good chance it will have in the furure. And, if you decide to go over to the continent, remember they are only intersted in their laws, so get caught in winter over there without winter tyres, and it´s a fine and points (Which WILL be transferred to your UK licence), and if you have an accident, your fault or not, your insurance is null and void at that moment.

Personally I think winter tyres are a good idea, and most 4x4´s sped about 90% (Or more) of their time on the road.

[TaxiDriver]

Just Google winter tyres in the size you wish, but remember that winter tyres are normally not as WIDE as summer tyres, so they are easier to cut through the snow, rather than sliding over the top.

 

For instance, mine would normally be 275/75 R15, but in winter I would have 275/80 R15

 

They are both the same width.

The second tyre having a slightly taller sidewall, measured from the bead of the tyre to the shoulder of the tread.

 

On the first tyre, the sidewall height is 75% of the sectional width (the 275 measurement) of the tyre

On the second tyre the sidewall height is 80% of the sectional width (the 275 measurement) of the tyre.

[Redditch]

They are both the same width.

The second tyre having a slightly taller sidewall, measured from the bead of the tyre to the shoulder of the tread.

 

On the first tyre, the sidewall height is 75% of the sectional width (the 275 measurement) of the tyre

On the second tyre the sidewall height is 80% of the sectional width (the 275 measurement) of the tyre.

Yep, it was just an example, but normally winter tyres ARE thinner than the ones you would use in the summer (I´m not a tyre expert LOL). In the snow the last thing you want is fat low profile tytres that will skid across the surface of the snow. You need tyres that are thinner to push trough and cut down to the hard pack below where they can get some grip. You´ll also see that winter tyres have lots of fine lammelen in them to squeeze the snow back out and stop the tyre clogging up with snow and ice. The rubber compounds are also generally musch softer than summer tyres, as once you hit the magic 7 degrees Celcius normal tyres will get hard and won´t grip properly (heat is what gives rubber it´s traction, hence warm up laps in racing)