Best Calibre for Foxes?

[hawkeye]

You would be getting a call if you ask for .22 centre fire in cleveland thats what i asked for and got a call asking what caliber do i want 222 223 22-250 i had to decide but as i had seen a nice Tikka lite in 223 i went for that :good:

[wymberley]

What about the Hornet?? Can it compete with the others?

No, but it wins paws down against Freddy. Assuming reloading, 175+ yards is on for magazine fed rounds and 225+ for a single shot load. However, the latter, or close to, may be achieved via a mag if this can cater for the longer COAL but is also dependent upon barrel length and twist rate.

Having said that, if you're consistantly going out to 250, then it has to be 223 ish.

[kent]

Why is he unlikely to get both? I got .204 and .222 at the same time with no problem.

 

Cheers

Ben

 

The cops see .20 cal different to .22, getting two cals in the same calibre is not impossible but very difficult to find good reason for two the same. They look very much to bullet diameter and calibre charts, i doubt .20b even exists on the ones they use currently

[kent]

No, but it wins paws down against Freddy. Assuming reloading, 175+ yards is on for magazine fed rounds and 225+ for a single shot load. However, the latter, or close to, may be achieved via a mag if this can cater for the longer COAL but is also dependent upon barrel length and twist rate.

Having said that, if you're consistantly going out to 250, then it has to be 223 ish.

 

 

Better not to assume, my Hornet will do just under 1" with factory RWS rounds at 225 yds- magazine fed! I should not truely say it was fully 250 capable though as you would realy have to pick your conditions even if you knew what you were doing enough to push the range much past 150 ish (knowing what your doing is the important caviat here). Making a killing shot on a fox at 250 is way easier with a .223 - like you say the better choice.

Myself i like to rely on the .243 if i expect longer shots and wind

Edited October 31, 2011 by kent

[wymberley]

Better not to assume, my Hornet will do just under 1" with factory RWS rounds at 225 yds- magazine fed! I should not truely say it was fully 250 capable though as you would realy have to pick your conditions even if you knew what you were doing enough to push the range much past 150 ish (knowing what your doing is the important caviat here). Making a killing shot on a fox at 250 is way easier with a .223 - like you say the better choice.

Myself i like to rely on the .243 if i expect longer shots and wind

Quite right, of course, as the old FS poster says, "Never Assume, Check". Accuracy, naturally, is critical but so is energy. Hitting a quarry spot on with a pinprick achieves nothing. I would imagine that we all have an opinion as to the energy levels required to kill a fox at, say, your given 225 yards. I seem to remember from a previous conversation that your rifle gives a higher MV than the manufactures predict for your cartridge of choice. As I'm still "messing about", could you give the energy figure for your round at 225 yards. It may well give me cause to rethink my predicted (it's looking good, but I'm waiting for the rifle in which this particular cartridge will be used to arrive) figure of some 530 joules.

Edited October 31, 2011 by wymberley

[kent]

Quite right, of course, as the old FS poster says, "Never Assume, Check". Accuracy, naturally, is critical but so is energy. Hitting a quarry spot on with a pinprick achieves nothing. I would imagine that we all have an opinion as to the energy levels required to kill a fox at, say, your given 225 yards. I seem to remember from a previous conversation that your rifle gives a higher MV than the manufactures predict for your cartridge of choice. As I'm still "messing about", could you give the energy figure for your round at 225 yards. It may well give me cause to rethink my predicted (it's looking good, but I'm waiting for the rifle in which this particular cartridge will be used to arrive) figure of some 530 joules.

 

joules? thats for the rest of Europe - we use good old ftlb here mate I dont realy carry great sway in retained energy myself as without correct bullet terminals most of the energy will only pop out the other side of the ribcage. The figures i think your quoting me on are maybee the fact that the hornet carries way more energy way past 100yds than the WMR has available at the muzzle, which it does It also makes the HMR seem like a spud gun, but the Hornet cannot compete with the heavy hitters higher up the c/fire ladder

Indeed talking pedantics you can kill cleanly with a pinprick, one only needs to look what can be humanely killed with a .22rf sub at ultra short range to realise that. Garantee of a first round kill though good shot placement is what limits us

Heres the figures of the two loads i am working with presently though 46 grn RWS TMS @ 2550 fps and 45grn Seirra Hornet @ 2900 fps. A broadside on heart lung shot into a fox from either of the loads shown will kill cleanly at way beyond the ability of the best shots of that i totally assure you. Trying to turn the Hornet into a real long range foxer is not realy on, likewise i can't consider shot angles i wouldn't give a second thought when using the .243" with suitable bullet or the ranges. But this has nothing to do with the energy only the handicaps of a lighter calibre on shot placement at extended ranges

Edited October 31, 2011 by kent

[matone]

.222 rem is a great little round !

[jamie g]

as its been said they all do the job very well. when i have been fox shooting with mate's over the years. we have shot them with 17 fireball, 204, 222, 223, 22/250, 243, 6br

 

all do the job very well indeed it all depends what YOU need from your rifle. if you plan to go for deer etc in the future and you only want one rifle then a 6mm might be better for you.

 

if its just a out and out foxing tool then 17 cf, 20 cf or 22 cf are all good. I had a 222 for a bit and it was dead accurate but I always took my 22/250 instead

as I preferred it when out foxing.

 

a cracking calibre lots of stopping power, fast flat and good at night when the ranges get long and can be hard to judge. dont forgot you never get chance to use the range finder all the time.

 

just lately though i have been using a 17 fireball with 20 grain vmax. so the 22/250 has been left at home. i find it ideal on some of the little permission i go on.

bullet rarely exits which is a bonus. and only uses 18 grains of powder. super fast and flat. ideal 200 yard rifle with the 20 vmax.

 

recoil is like a hmr ! well if you can call it recoil ! a cracking round not to be over looked imo.

 

people say 223 ammo is very cheap and that is a bonus. but imo i wouldn't spend x amount on a rifle and then feed it cheap ammo. if its accurate that isn't so bad.

but I have found with the cheap ammo its accurate one minute. and the next batch from the gun shop is all over the place. no consistency with some of that cheaper stuff.

 

there is a cracking tikka m595 stainless in 222 on the air gun bbs forum for sale

Edited November 1, 2011 by jamie g

[wymberley]

joules? thats for the rest of Europe - we use good old ftlb here mate I dont realy carry great sway in retained energy myself as without correct bullet terminals most of the energy will only pop out the other side of the ribcage. The figures i think your quoting me on are maybee the fact that the hornet carries way more energy way past 100yds than the WMR has available at the muzzle, which it does It also makes the HMR seem like a spud gun, but the Hornet cannot compete with the heavy hitters higher up the c/fire ladder

Indeed talking pedantics you can kill cleanly with a pinprick, one only needs to look what can be humanely killed with a .22rf sub at ultra short range to realise that. Garantee of a first round kill though good shot placement is what limits us

Heres the figures of the two loads i am working with presently though 46 grn RWS TMS @ 2550 fps and 45grn Seirra Hornet @ 2900 fps. A broadside on heart lung shot into a fox from either of the loads shown will kill cleanly at way beyond the ability of the best shots of that i totally assure you. Trying to turn the Hornet into a real long range foxer is not realy on, likewise i can't consider shot angles i wouldn't give a second thought when using the .243" with suitable bullet or the ranges. But this has nothing to do with the energy only the handicaps of a lighter calibre on shot placement at extended ranges

Thanks for the info, I'll take a look at it in slow time later.

Yep, agree absolutely and long may it last - only used the joules because I knew you'd understand as that is the terminology that the manufacturer (RWS) uses on his website.

Cheers

Edited November 1, 2011 by wymberley

[labstaff]

Thanks again for the advice folks. Jamie G, deer stalking is something I want to try, but I won't apply for a rifle for stalking until i've been out with an estate rifle to see how much I enjoy it (although i've got a feeling I will!!!). Think i'll have a word with my FEO to see what is likely to be authorised.

[BrowningDJC]

22-250 seems the most popular calibre around my way, i went for 243 so could control a few deer too. May be worth a think.

[Frenchieboy]

This debate over which round/rifle is best for foxes comes up fairly regularly. Everyone will say that the rifle they have is the best and sight different reasons to justify there claims, and they all differ in calibres!

I use a .243 which does the job well enough, but I use it purely because that is the only calibre of fifle that I have that is authorise for foxes! (Exxceot my 17HMR which is "conditioned" for "The dispatch of foxes caught in a cage trap"! I have also owned and used a 22-250 and a .222, both of which did a very good job on Charlie! I believe that the answer is "Whatever calibre that you have which is authorised for foxes" is the best to use, as long as you know yours and your rifle's limitations!

The debate goes on and on!

[kent]

Thanks for the info, I'll take a look at it in slow time later.

Yep, agree absolutely and long may it last - only used the joules because I knew you'd understand as that is the terminology that the manufacturer (RWS) uses on his website.

Cheers

 

I tend to ignoor manufacturers data for speed and energy often it needs filing in the fiction section of the library, stick it over the chrono always works for me

[wymberley]

I tend to ignoor manufacturers data for speed and energy often it needs filing in the fiction section of the library, stick it over the chrono always works for me

Absolutely, except I can't remember the last time I fired one. Like all reloaders, it's the manufcturers' economy with the truth relating to a bullet's BC that one has to be careful of.

[dazz]

.223.hornady vmax.zeroed 1-1/2 icnh high at 200 yds.you wont go far wrong.

 

 

daz

[kent]

Absolutely, except I can't remember the last time I fired one. Like all reloaders, it's the manufcturers' economy with the truth relating to a bullet's BC that one has to be careful of.

 

One shouldnt be slavish to stated BC. This also can be calculated from two chrongraphed velocities though. Some get all finikey about .0something - its meaninless compared to if your gun actually likes them. Some factory ammo has amazed me over the last 18mnths or so, its way better than it was i also had not shot factory for many moons