mereside Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 It sounds as if you are saying that being cruel is fine as long as it's not wasteful. I'm sure that isn't what you meant. Clear this up for me, is the delay to minimise suffering or to improve your chance of filling the fridge ? And explain why a "humane" shot needs 20 minutes to be sure the beast is incapable of running off. The more I read the less I want to shoot deer. sorry i had to go out so just read the rest of your posts ,this isnt about filling the fridge its about whats best for the animal if you let the animal lay up to minimise its stress it will want to lay down in cover and in turn it will lose blood and die and it will do this straight away unless you go in and chase it further it will only lay down if it feels its out of danger .if the shot placement has been correct ie heart lung it will be dead on its feet and drop allitle further away,if the shot hasnt been good it could run and die a horrible death best to leave it 5-10-20 mins and it will have gone to cover and you can follow it up for a second shot minimising its pain. sometimes shots do go wrong and things need to be done to ease its suffering again it is best practice to shoot for the heart lung for less room for error and a quick death. a head/neck shot gone wrong could have a deer running on and living for a week without a jaw or anything else.now again im not saying dont neck shoot as it does have its place but its about the situation your in dictates the shot to be used,atb wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Chaps, why so bitterly expressed differing points of view ? I would guess the point is to kill deer humanely and a straightforward exchange of ideas is better than responding to a reasonable query with strongly held, fixed views. Even if you do not shoot deer, there is a point to Dekers question which would benefit non-deer shooters like me, the right distance, the right calibre, the right bullet for YOU and why. Why stifle what could be a genuinely interesting thread from experienced shooters by the 'i'm right youre wrong' approach. We ALL had a first shot at an animal with a rifle and, if we are all 'proper' shooters we want to know the best way to kill cleanly and without suffering. I've learnt a lot from this forum, not least of which is to offer advice and dont insist its taken, or that it is the only way. keep it cheerful, or argue alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Chaps, why so bitterly expressed differing points of view ? I would guess the point is to kill deer humanely and a straightforward exchange of ideas is better than responding to a reasonable query with strongly held, fixed views. Even if you do not shoot deer, there is a point to Dekers question which would benefit non-deer shooters like me, the right distance, the right calibre, the right bullet for YOU and why. Why stifle what could be a genuinely interesting thread from experienced shooters by the 'i'm right youre wrong' approach. We ALL had a first shot at an animal with a rifle and, if we are all 'proper' shooters we want to know the best way to kill cleanly and without suffering. I've learnt a lot from this forum, not least of which is to offer advice and dont insist its taken, or that it is the only way. keep it cheerful, or argue alone. Hi kes, there will always be debate and its not a bad thing, we all have our own ideas of how things work for us. One rifleman will be able to shoot a deer at 300yds, another may struggle with 100yds, bullet wieght, bullet type, calibre, so many variables,its not a clear cut science. The most valuable thing you will ever learn is your own experience, yes learn from others, read books until the library is exhausted but there will always something you will learn which will differ from others experience and this is what we are sharing, there will be abrasions along the way. Anyone who has shot a few deer will have had something go'not quite right', it could be something out of your control like factory ammunition or a deflection off a twig but odds are you will probably have to follow a shot deer, hopefully it will be dead, but whatever, you have to be able to deal with it, we just have to lower the odds. Hunting isnt like knitting, the end result is death. As for arguements, well then just keep your opinions to yourself if you dont like them, I have had many a slanging match on here, been called a troll (whatever that is) and worse, some I will never know as the words get xxxxxx but I never take it to heart and never feel badly about a pw member and would always be happy to have a pint with any of em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignoel Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 never heard such things alike wait 20 mins for the deer to die. wait for it to raise its head for a secound shot to kill it ? heart and lung them then chase them and these are the perfect shots are they Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Hi kes, there will always be debate and its not a bad thing, we all have our own ideas of how things work for us. One rifleman will be able to shoot a deer at 300yds, another may struggle with 100yds, bullet wieght, bullet type, calibre, so many variables,its not a clear cut science. The most valuable thing you will ever learn is your own experience, yes learn from others, read books until the library is exhausted but there will always something you will learn which will differ from others experience and this is what we are sharing, there will be abrasions along the way. Anyone who has shot a few deer will have had something go'not quite right', it could be something out of your control like factory ammunition or a deflection off a twig but odds are you will probably have to follow a shot deer, hopefully it will be dead, but whatever, you have to be able to deal with it, we just have to lower the odds. Hunting isnt like knitting, the end result is death. As for arguements, well then just keep your opinions to yourself if you dont like them, I have had many a slanging match on here, been called a troll (whatever that is) and worse, some I will never know as the words get xxxxxx but I never take it to heart and never feel badly about a pw member and would always be happy to have a pint with any of em. If everyone's approach is the same as yours Red - I'll be a lot less concerned. Cheers and all the best. Kes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 never heard such things alike wait 20 mins for the deer to die. wait for it to raise its head for a secound shot to kill it ? heart and lung them then chase them and these are the perfect shots are they have you shot many deer if you read carefully through all the posts there is only 1 person who cannot understand "wiating after the shot" BUT he dosent shoot deer so this topic has been an education for him even though every post by people who shoot deer ststes the excact same thing "wait a while after the shot" the explaination is crystal clear why this is practised and even on the BASC web site is clearly sates "wait at least 5 mins" after the shot now you state "you have never heard such things" do live live on the moon or havnt you shot deer and had the correct training ?? hopefully this popst would have help educate others in the correct thing to do when a shot has be fired and a beast hit,matters not if its ran or fell over on the spot "you still give it time" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mereside Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 for anyone who is interested you can go onto this site and read the relevent info in the column on the left or you can spend 15 pounds and get a detailed binder with all the correct info it is very helpfull for stalking i would post it up but my computer at work is playing silly ******* so heres a link,atb wayne www.thedeerinitiative.co.uk/html/bestpractice.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 for anyone who is interested you can go onto this site and read the relevent info in the column on the left or you can spend 15 pounds and get a detailed binder with all the correct info it is very helpfull for stalking i would post it up but my computer at work is playing silly ******* so heres a link,atb wayne www.thedeerinitiative.co.uk/html/bestpractice.htm link not working mate,but I presume it will say the same as many others have said on this post, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignoel Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 have you shot many deer if you read carefully through all the posts there is only 1 person who cannot understand "wiating after the shot" BUT he dosent shoot deer so this topic has been an education for him even though every post by people who shoot deer ststes the excact same thing "wait a while after the shot" the explaination is crystal clear why this is practised and even on the BASC web site is clearly sates "wait at least 5 mins" after the shot now you state "you have never heard such things" do live live on the moon or havnt you shot deer and had the correct training ?? hopefully this popst would have help educate others in the correct thing to do when a shot has be fired and a beast hit,matters not if its ran or fell over on the spot "you still give it time" i can asure you i have shot more deer than i can count .i go by my experiance on shooting deer and not ink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) i can asure you i have shot more deer than i can count .i go by my experiance on shooting deer and not ink thats great so you extensive experience should tell you to wait after the shot and not barge in like a rutting stag a classic case of "old dogs new tricks" Edited November 7, 2011 by Ackley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Not approaching a shot deer that has walked on or run on is the correct procedure, if you approach a beast that is still capable of moving it can get up and run off making it even harder to find. The shot placement thing has been done to death, I always go for the best shot the specific situation provides. I have pulled shots and had to follow up on deer and also had them run on (not far luckily) from 'perfect' shots, including a hind I shot this weekend that walked off and then dropped, when gralloched her heart was blown clean apart. Anyone who says every single deer they have ever shot has dropped dead on the spot is either lying or hasn't shot many. Here is the placement document download from the Deer Initiative site, there is good stuff on there. http://www.thedeerinitiative.co.uk/uploads/guides/161.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Anyone who says every single deer they have ever shot has dropped dead on the spot is either lying or hasn't shot many. Here is the placement document download from the Deer Initiative site, there is good stuff on there. http://www.thedeerinitiative.co.uk/uploads/guides/161.pdf I hope the OP is still reading this,as according to him his deer dont run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mereside Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) i will try again so you can see the relivent documents these are great put into a folder atb wayne My link that should work ,atb wayne Edited November 7, 2011 by mereside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Do you wait 20 minutes before checking the animal ? Is it common ? Totally depends on the circumstances but to clarify depends on were it was hit and if the dog was available. Front leg wound without a dog and no second shot possible yes and maybee longer, with dog staight onto it no question. Gut shot yes always and then some if it was a large species. Remember this is only if no second shot is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 I think that is the point that's being missed. If a second shot is safe and needed then take it as soon as possible. Once things go wrong the most important thing is to get that Deer dead. Forget meat damage and the like and do whatever it takes to finish it off. The only thing that comes before welfare is safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 I hope the OP is still reading this,as according to him his deer dont run Probably busy meeting fans or at a book signing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Probably busy meeting fans or at a book signing well I hope he turns up as he didnt last month at Bisley (even when told the date) when I was there shooting 600 yards probably too busy signing books as you say and given shooting instruction to old ladies :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 I think that is the point that's being missed. If a second shot is safe and needed then take it as soon as possible. Once things go wrong the most important thing is to get that Deer dead. Forget meat damage and the like and do whatever it takes to finish it off. The only thing that comes before welfare is safety. And of course every situation is differant, I would have no problem putting a shot throught the shoulders if I screwed up and put one in the stomach, I always rechamber a round as soon as the first ones gone, I don't wait to see what the deer is doing until thats done. You should be able to tell were you have hit an animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Once again a thread ( perfectly valid question) encourages the spoilers to come out, if you cant answer a thread without an attempt to ridicule,then dont answer, easy enough is it not. KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Once again a thread ( perfectly valid question) encourages the spoilers to come out, if you cant answer a thread without an attempt to ridicule,then dont answer, easy enough is it not. KW I suggest you take the time to read the whole thread again and slowly this time to digest it properly.The op didnt like the answers,mostly sensible and well put and started accusing folks of admitting to shooting deer in the wrong place and with the wrong ammo.He spoiled the thread by speaking keech about something he knows absolutely nothing about.If the op doesnt like answers,he shouldnt post a question.Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Once again a thread ( perfectly valid question) encourages the spoilers to come out, if you cant answer a thread without an attempt to ridicule,then dont answer, easy enough is it not. KW well the OP should learn to grow a set as he "ridicules" everyone at the slightest opertunity,unfortunatley for him hes made himself look a complete fool and its looks hes not as experienced as he thinks he is theres an old saying "dont give out what you cant take" Edited November 7, 2011 by Ackley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Once again a thread ( perfectly valid question) encourages the spoilers to come out, if you cant answer a thread without an attempt to ridicule,then dont answer, easy enough is it not. KW So explain yourself in a bit more depth, I think the facts are that this thread has shown who shoot deer and who shoot something in their pants. :look: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 The op didnt like the answers,mostly sensible and well put and started accusing folks of admitting to shooting deer in the wrong place and with the wrong ammo. To be fair, we've had several people on this thread write about changing bullets and / or calibres and getting less runners as a result. Doesn't that suggest that their original choices were less than optimal ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 I hope the OP is still reading this,as according to him his deer dont run Don't think he a actually said that, more that a deer shot perfectly doesn't run. IMHO that is partially correct. I've shot deer in the heart and they have run a way, had to track the odd one from the blood trail also. However, I have not yet had a runner from more explosive ammo like v-max, which I suspect is a lot to do with the devastating damage it does, since the insides are just blasted. There we get to the argument about preservation of meat, and then I think it's the usual compromise which we should avoid as it never ends well. So would I consider a shot with a softpoint the heart perfect? Yes I think so. So on that basis, yes you can and yes I have had runners from that perfect shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 To be fair, we've had several people on this thread write about changing bullets and / or calibres and getting less runners as a result. Doesn't that suggest that their original choices were less than optimal ? Ignorance isnt always with the shooter, 243 is legal calibre for deer and thats the way alot of police forces see it, it wasnt until I had some pigs running around that I was granted 308,so far it seems to be a better calibre for larger deer but its early days. What is less than optimal, 243 has alot of power and is good enough for any deer, the problem with a engine room shot, and you will know why this is the best shot from all the other posts, that it doesnt always drop the deer on the spot,even if the heart is blown right away. What would you suggest, hunt deer with RPG's, then the deer will not move from impact point, but then if the prey isnt harvestable then whats the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts