UKPoacher Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 If idiots did not think they could throw people off their drive for no reason.We would not get to have a laugh at there expense. And if people did not keep winding them up this thread would be a lot shorter. And I thought I was educating them, not winding them up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonblasterian Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 And I thought I was educating them, not winding them up You had me fooled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) "Hello? is that the police? There is a salesman at my door and he won't leave. You'll send someone round straight away? Lovely thanks" See what you mean, but it's still hardly a bright idea to start a scuffle outside your own house. I think some people are confusing the right to defend oneself from hoodie intruders nicking to feed a crack habit with law abiding folk doing a job nobody likes. Just for the record how many of you have actually come across a situation of the belligerent door to door chap that prefers a black eye to walking next door? Sounds a bit like a Harry Enfield sketch if you ask me. Edited November 12, 2011 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 You had me fooled. I keep forgetting that Gordon has the ability to enter a revolving door ahead of you and leave it behind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldivalloch Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 What's wrong with subtlety and ingenuity?? Despite being registered with the Telephone Preference Service, we still get quite a lot of sales calls. My wife answered the phone recently and the caller - obviously a salesman from his opening gambit - asked to speak to her husband. She put on a pretty good act of bursting into tears and sobbed, "How CAN you ring me at a time like this? My husband has just DIED!!" Never had a follow-up call!!! Made me feel a bit funny, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Never be surprised how deceitful and threatening some salesman can be. My parents had a double glazing salesman refusing to leave their home unless they bought a couple of grands worth off him. He just stood there in the kitchen and wouldn't budge, I ended up lobbing satsumas at the pleb and messing with him till he got the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 See what you mean, but it's still hardly a bright idea to start a scuffle outside your own house. I think some people are confusing the right to defend oneself from hoodie intruders nicking to feed a crack habit with law abiding folk doing a job nobody likes. Just for the record how many of you have actually come across a situation of the belligerent door to door chap that prefers a black eye to walking next door? Sounds a bit like a Harry Enfield sketch if you ask me. I wasn't advocating a scuffle, just pointing out that the option some people are suggesting is highly unlikely to result in a rapid response. Not all door knockers are "law abiding folk". We are plagued by the type who used to sell lucky heather but are now more interested in taking away "scrap metal" and having a wander round the yard after you have shut the door on them. Given up calling the police now because they never responded, rapidly or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyxologos Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 If someone knocks on your door and you do not want them in, do not let them in. If they force themselves in then you can act in defence of your property and force them out. If they stand outside your door after you refuse entry, no matter how long, you have no reasonable cause to use force against them. As simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 If someone knocks on your door and you do not want them in, do not let them in. If they force themselves in then you can act in defence of your property and force them out. If they stand outside your door after you refuse entry, no matter how long, you have no reasonable cause to use force against them. As simple as that. But where does your "property" end? Are you saying it is it only the house you can defend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 we dont answer the door or answer the phone either, thats what salesman do to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyxologos Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) But where does your "property" end? Are you saying it is it only the house you can defend? Yes, this is kind off what I am saying. Defend yourself, family and home. Unless you are trying to tell me that an annoyed salesman takes his fury on your lawn as form of punishment to you for not buying his double glaze windows. In such case, call the police and he will be done for criminal damage. Edited November 12, 2011 by Psyxologos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) We do get a few doorknockers but Ive only ever had one young guy that got a bit aggressively rude. I told him to find his way out of my garden at some stage because he would get rather cold standing there for the rest of the afternoon. I did feel a bit sorry for him though because he must have been in a bit of a corner to get stressed out like that. The thing that irritates me is we get a lot of random phone callers mostly a mobile number or a call that is some sort of machine that doesnt say anything and then cuts off. Today I had a call from someone that asked if I was mr XYZ (my father in law) and he died about 18 years ago and he never even lived here. Strange that one! Perhaps it was one of those TV programs that trace people that had money in insurance policies or defunct bank accounts. If they ring up again Ill ask them if theyve got any cash for me. If they have thats great! If they havent perhaps it will be them that hang up. On the other hand I keep getting emails from people who want to give me X millions of U.S. dollars for money outstanding to me and Ive never even been to Nigeria. Good job Im honest as I could take their money under a falsehood. Edited November 12, 2011 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 UK Poacher - you are becoming something akin to a stalker. For the record - I think you are not very bright. I do actually feel sorry for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 In front of a PC now so will be easier to reply :lol: you do talk some utter balls sometimes, if the clubs management caught on that you were just throwing people out for no good reason you'd be looking for a new job, what clubs do you work in leeds? Worked at quite a few nightclubs and pubs in Leeds and Norwich.. and a GOOD management will leave the door to you..most though are more bothered about footfall and money over the bar...hence one reason why I dont do the door as often as I did He only guests in clubs. By day he's a legal consultant. ok fella...10 years experiance in the licence trade... Nipping what in the bud? any trouble..you have a couple of seconds to decide if you want someone in the place...once they get in you might get a feeling that something will happen later if you leave them...therefore you evict and dont need to give a reason. As to question and cautions etcs... A caution is part of a criminal record...in the strictest term is not a conviction. The caution is not the offence itself but it does arise from the admission of a criminal offence just like a conviction does. I admit when I posted earlier I made a mistake with my termnalogy It is used for minor crimes. and to the OP the question was when a saleman would not leave...therefore creating a breach of the peace etc and civil law you could also threaten to call the police on the grounds that they are harassing you and trespassing on your property but again if they still refuse to leave your house or garden then you can escort them off the property Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 UK Poacher - you are becoming something akin to a stalker. For the record - I think you are not very bright. I do actually feel sorry for you. I asked you three times what grounds you have to physically eject someone from your property under these circumstances: I point stroppy callers to the end of my drive. I ask them politely to leave and add that I will use reasonable force to assist them if necessary. You still haven't answered. Now, not for a minute do I think that you have in the past or would in the future act like that. More likely to be hiding behind the curtains pointing at your Neighbourhood Watch sign. But some PW members might have the moral fortitude to take hold of someone, and if they were to do that based on your advice they would likely be prosecuted and possibly lose their guns. I don't care what you think. You are a pompous idiot with a default position of being wrong. You also have the remarkable ability to switch sides in a debate without acknowledging it or showing the slightest bit of guilt. It would however be a shame if someone on here got into trouble based on the advice of someone with his legal expertese drawn from watching 1970's police programs. So unless you can actually post on here the legal authority that you have to carry out your statement of: ......I will use reasonable force to assist them if necessary. Then I suggest that you go back to your Morse videos. Interestingly, you were the one insisiting repeatedly that the police trawl Internet sites for evidence of people admitting to speeding in order to take their SGC off them. Does that hold for idiots advocating assaulting door-to-door salesmen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 You really aren't very bright. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ME Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) I like it when the Jehovahs come round. I have some admiration for them, but think that their bothering skills would get them further if they were flogging double glazing. "Have you ever thought about God double glazing?". The Watchtower sponsored by Everest. Edited November 13, 2011 by ME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieh Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 UKpoacher you really are being silly, "try calling the police" have you tried recently like in the last 25 yrs,they are far far too busy chasing motorists Geordie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 any trouble..you have a couple of seconds to decide if you want someone in the place...once they get in you might get a feeling that something will happen later if you leave them...therefore you evict and dont need to give a reason. So what training does the sia give you that you can spot a potential troublemaker within a couple of seconds? I can't see the licensee being too happy with the prospect of their 'doormen' deciding who can or can't drink on their premises. I bet you were really popular. As to question and cautions etcs... A caution is part of a criminal record...in the strictest term is not a conviction. The caution is not the offence itself but it does arise from the admission of a criminal offence just like a conviction does. I admit when I posted earlier I made a mistake with my termnalogy It is used for minor crimes. Wrong again. As I've said many times a caution is given, usually for a lesser offence, when the offence is admitted by the perpetrator, BUT a conviction is NOT an admission of guilt. It is a verdict reached by a court irrespective of the plea entered. Many people don't/won't admit guilt even after being convicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 personally the sia is a load of XXXX. They do not teach you to do the job really and you get more experianc on your first night. Your cant teach the "feeling" you get when you see someone and dont want them in. As to the pub management they "should" back your decision up but since the sia came in alot has changed for the worse. One way to put it to the management is what is more important that extra £3 over the bar or the place getting a reputation for trouble andscrotes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 You really aren't very bright. :lol: Gordon, you still haven't posted your legal authority despite four times of asking. With the exception of one person who bases his legal stance on chucking people out of pubs before they do anything wrong, no one has come forward to support your view. Why do you think that is? Maybe I am not very bright. But on this issue I am right. So what does that make you? UKpoacher you really are being silly, "try calling the police" have you tried recently like in the last 25 yrs,they are far far too busy chasing motorists Geordie The alternative is to follow Gordon's suggestion and you'll find that the police will arrive pretty promptly. They will also offer, or maybe insist on, an on the spot firearms removal service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyxologos Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 I think all this is pointless. It would be better if someone who knows Gordon spread a rumour in Gordon's town/village that Gordon won some money in the lottery and he is after some new windows/doors/tarmac etc. Having set a camera on the house opposite Gordon's, we could then enjoy him in action fending off cold callers by beating the lights off them. If the situation calls for it, leeds chimp could step in and kick some *** too... That way we can put the argument to rest. If Gordon and the chimp are right, the police will not take an interest in their actions. If not, they will have learned a lesson. The hard way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 I think all this is pointless. It would be better if someone who knows Gordon spread a rumour in Gordon's town/village that Gordon won some money in the lottery and he is after some new windows/doors/tarmac etc. Having set a camera on the house opposite Gordon's, we could then enjoy him in action fending off cold callers by beating the lights off them. If the situation calls for it, leeds chimp could step in and kick some *** too... That way we can put the argument to rest. If Gordon and the chimp are right, the police will not take an interest in their actions. If not, they will have learned a lesson. The hard way... To be fair I don't think either Gordon or Leeds Chimp were advocating a good shoeing to said salesman. Just an 'escort' from the premises. My personal preference to deter unwanted visitors is to show them a video of crayfish being put into a bucket. It never fails Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo1 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 i tend to try and take a comical attitude towards cold calling salesmen... the last one....which was yonks ago.....asked if we wanted to buy double glazing which already we have...after pointing out the fact that we already have it,i said no thankyou mate....by the way do you want to buy a clapped out renault laguna for 300 quid ?? been a solid reliable motor but just failed its mot and needs a bit of welding !!! likewise with telephone sales....as soon as i know its a sales person.....i just leave the phone connected but sly off for a cup `o tea/coffee and wonder how their one way conversation is progressing they`re never on when i go back and pick up the phone....cant imagine why !!?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 To settle the point about where the right to use reasonable force to eject trespassers: The use of reasonable force to eject a trespasser is lawful provided steps have been taken to ask the trespasser to to leave. This was established in the case of Green v Goddard. In these circumstances, violence beyond assault/battery would almost never be considered reasonable e.g. in Collins v Renison The right is a common law right, and as such is not established in statute. Why anyone would feel it neccessary to remove a cold caller in this way is beyond me to be honest. Close the door and they will leave when they get bored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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