furthest possible fox kill

[elmar fudd]

brought some fiocchi 52 gram magnums tonight in size 0 shot after a mate of mine said he shot a fox stone dead at just over 60 yards with one the other night, now just to clarify im not going to be shooitng at anything that far! 35 tops for me but how for do you think they would kill a fox at? or how far have you killed foxes at?

 

 

fudd

[Dr_evil]

I'd say they should kill at that range, I've just got some Bronaghi 36g steel 4's and been told not to shoot anything closer than 40 yards if not I'll most likely shred it, said they'd have a range of about 70 yards I think

 

Also not to fire them out of a 2 3/4 chamber gun as its not gonna be able to take the pressure in most cases

 

Its a 2 3/4 shell but 1050 BAR which is the same as my RC50 3" Magnums so damn powerful for a little shell

 

 

So 52g magnums should be more than likely to kill one at 60 IMO with the right choke

[SSS]

Always seems strange to me that the laws of physics go out of the window when we talk about big loads.

 

Here's a suggestion, pattern it at 70 yards with the tightest choke you have got, and if there is gaps bigger than a fox in your pattern, your answer is no!

 

Keep it within 30 (or 35 like you said) and be sensible.

 

The furthest I have killed a fox at with a shotgun is about 20 yards.

[poontang]

I've just got some Bronaghi 36g steel 4's and been told not to shoot anything closer than 40 yards if not I'll most likely shred it, said they'd have a range of about 70 yards I think

 

 

 

 

 

I use these shells all the time and can assure you they won't 'shred' a bird at under 40 yards.

I've shot plenty of birds at 20-30 yards and there's no more damage than any other cartridge I've used.

Don't use them on 70 yard birds, you won't kill them.

[dougall]

This type of thread comes up alot!

A shotgun with any decent shell will kill a fox dead at @ 30 yards.40 yards with magnum shells.Beyond that range IT IS LUCK if you kill a fox.If you were going to shoot your dog would you do it from 60 yards???Anyone shooting foxes at 60 yards+ with a shotgun is an idiot.

[casts_by_fly]

Elmar,

 

Pattern them at 40 to start and see how they do in your gun. I set up a gun for coyote using #4 buck and it was running low on pattern density at 40. The 0's have enough energy at 50-60 but only if you can put a couple in the boiler room or guarantee a CNS hit.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[EdSolomons]

If your mate shot at a fox with any shell bar a slug through a shotgun at 70 yards hes a mug and should stick to water pistols!

[Dr_evil]

I use these shells all the time and can assure you they won't 'shred' a bird at under 40 yards.

I've shot plenty of birds at 20-30 yards and there's no more damage than any other cartridge I've used.

Don't use them on 70 yard birds, you won't kill them.

 

 

Thats disappointing :(

 

 

I was told they were the best shells out there for wildfowl shooting

[EdSolomons]

Steel is by all accounts pretty toilet for anything live past 40 yards, irrespective of shot load/size. Get some big ITM if your going to be attempting long stuff.

[shaun4860]

Thats disappointing :(

 

 

I was told they were the best shells out there for wildfowl shooting

 

 

Why would you want to be shooting 70 yard birds?

 

Unless you can be 100% confident of killing every bird at that range (and you wont be) then stick to reasonable SAFE distances.

 

you dont want pricked birds left all over the place

 

[Flat-Cap]

I think it's well documented that people are very inaccurate at judging distances in the field without a range finder, and even less accurate when talking about it to a mate down the pub.

 

70 yards? Hmm.

[pavman]

Always seems strange to me that the laws of physics go out of the window when we talk about big loads.

 

Here's a suggestion, pattern it at 70 yards with the tightest choke you have got, and if there is gaps bigger than a fox in your pattern, your answer is no!

 

Keep it within 30 (or 35 like you said) and be sensible.

 

The furthest I have killed a fox at with a shotgun is about 20 yards.

 

 

well said SSS quite why folk cant make an association between what’s coming out the cart and the overall weight of the load I have no idea, was down the marsh the other day and got talking to another 2 chaps…. We have 3 ½ carts for geese 3 ½ what says I, 3’s, that’s a duck load says I not in a 3 ½ they said ye gods says I a tube full of marsh mellow is still marsh mellow no matter how much you have and a few bricks is just that (BRICKS) now what should we be pointing at Geese a tube of mellow or a bit fewer Bricks?

So steel 4’s 40 yards shredding flesh I just don’t get it I would say that’s the max range not the min but a 0 is a serious ball @ about 8mm with just 9 to the Oz the pattern @ 50 yards + is not going to look very good one in the right spot will do the biz but as SSS says the chance of being on target without inflicting unnecessary suffering as range increases is worthy of consideration

[pavman]

Thats disappointing :(

 

 

I was told they were the best shells out there for wildfowl shooting

 

 

sorry did not see this.......

 

shops will sadly sell you what they want to not always what you need! like the saying most fishing tackle is to catch anglers not fish......

 

IMHO best factory wildfowling steel load is the Remmington in BB they patern well to 50 yards but are dropping off the kiling power slope for Geese but duck still drop, you get about 100 pellets and they are topped off with buffer which would give room for more to the point you could prob use a 3 inch cart but they are still a good load if you dont roll your own

[Dr_evil]

sorry did not see this.......

 

shops will sadly sell you what they want to not always what you need! like the saying most fishing tackle is to catch anglers not fish......

 

IMHO best factory wildfowling steel load is the Remmington in BB they patern well to 50 yards but are dropping off the kiling power slope for Geese but duck still drop, you get about 100 pellets and they are topped off with buffer which would give room for more to the point you could prob use a 3 inch cart but they are still a good load if you dont roll your own

 

 

He said they were one of the hardest hitting 2 3/4 shells in store (only bought a box to try compared to the RC 32's)

 

Once I get my new semi or pump I'll go back to the Gamebore Mammoths in BB or 0 in 3 1/2 looking at a Benelli Super Nova 3.5 in black synth as its only £420 delivered to my local RFD so pretty tempted in all honesty

 

 

 

Really want to try the Winchester Blindside and the Federal FlitStopper black cloud shells, will get a box of Remington Nitro steel next time I'm in though

Edited November 24, 2011 by Dr_evil

[aldivalloch]

I get the impression that more than a few people who post on here don't do much reading and/or research for themselves - witness Dr_evil's admission that he'd been told (and presumably believed) that 36g steel loads in no.4 "were the best shells out there for wildfowl shooting".

 

It's no secret that, compared to other materials, steel is balistically inferior.

 

When I was a youngster, starting out in shooting, I inhabited a more shooting-friendly world, and was lucky to get a lot of good advice from family and other contacts, and from the local gunshop.

 

But beyond that, I made a point of reading anything authoritative I could get my hands on that was relevant to shooting.

 

I subscribed to "Shooting Times", (which, I have to say, was a far better magazine then than it is now); haunted the local library; and put books on my birthday and Santa lists.

 

I've still got all those books and most of them are as relevant today as they were in the 60's and 70's. Some of them should be required reading - for example, Gough Thomas's works ("Shotguns and Cartridges", "Gough Thomas's Gun Book", and "Gough Thomas's Second Gun Book") in which he explores pattern and ballistics, amongst a whole host of other topics.

 

Just for the record, Gough Thomas was gun editor at "Shooting Times", and his reviews and tests set a standard for rigour and consistency no longer attained by the so-called experts of today.

 

While I'm at it, I suppose I might as well say that I continue to be baffled by the number of people who get 20 and 28 bores (which by and large are made too heavy), then stuff them with magnum-type loads.

 

What on earth's the point? There's no appreciable weight reduction over the 12 bore - if there were, the recoil would be punishing - and it was established long, long ago that big loads were better suited to big guns, relatively speaking.

 

It's worth remembering that the bore of a gun was, and still is, determined by the weight of a solid lead ball, exactly fitting the breech, as a fraction of a pound of pure lead - 12 bore, twelve balls, each one-twelfth of a pound; 20 bore, 20 balls each one-twentieth of a pound. And that's how the notional load for each of these bores came about.

 

Similarly, it was determined many, many years ago that in order to arrive at a compromise between portability and manageable recoil, the optimum weight for a shotgun was around 96 times the load the shooter intended to fire. Consequently, a 12 bore game-gun firing one-and-an-eighth ounce loads would be made to weigh about six-and-three-quarter pounds; a 20 bore firing three-quarters-of-an-ounce loads, four-and-a-half to five pounds.

 

The one-ounce load went (and still goes) best in a light 12 bore or a 16 bore. The huge loads contained in the various 12 bore magnum cartridges of today would be better accommodated by 10 and 8 bores.

 

There's a whole lot of stuff in books written by far more knowledgeable people than I, that deals with the adverse effects upon pellet shape, pattern and pressure of the long shot columns which are an inevitable consequence of stuffing big loads through small bores.

 

A few years ago, I came by a 16 bore side-by-side. It weighs just under six pounds, and shoots fifteen-sixteenths of an ounce of no 6 very satisfactorily. It's no burden to carry, has a liveliness you won't find in obese seven-pounds-plus 20 bores, and it kills very satisfactorily if held straight.

 

Try one and be surprised, pleased and, I hope, converted.

[Mike525steel]

Always seems strange to me that the laws of physics go out of the window when we talk about big loads.

 

Here's a suggestion, pattern it at 70 yards with the tightest choke you have got, and if there is gaps bigger than a fox in your pattern, your answer is no!

 

Keep it within 30 (or 35 like you said) and be sensible.

 

The furthest I have killed a fox at with a shotgun is about 20 yards.

I agree it's not a bullet gun and 60 yards plus sounds an irresponsible shot at a fox to me

[Mike525steel]

Why would you want to be shooting 70 yard birds?

 

Unless you can be 100% confident of killing every bird at that range (and you wont be) then stick to reasonable SAFE distances.

 

you dont want pricked birds left all over the place

 

These people think they are shooting clays. 2 or3 pellets and it's a kill. It's a very different story with game

[poontang]

Thats disappointing :(

 

 

I was told they were the best shells out there for wildfowl shooting

 

They are good shells, and they will do the job up to about 40 yards.

 

I don't know who told you they were good for 70 yards, but they're talking out of their backside. Don't even think about it.

[Mike525steel]

I think it's well documented that people are very inaccurate at judging distances in the field without a range finder, and even less accurate when talking about it to a mate down the pub.

 

70 yards? Hmm.

That sound more like it

Edited November 24, 2011 by Mike525steel

[Simon123]

Well, quite a lot of people have told me that some lad's from the valley's done some testing on all of the heavy 3" cartridges on the market. They tried RC's, Fiocchi's, Gamebore's, Expresse's etc. They found that the RC 50's would kill at the furthest point at 68 yards, and closely followed by Gamebore Mammouth Magnum 50g at 64 yards, and followed by Fiocchi Magnum's at 62 yards

 

Eventhough saying this, i would in no way recommend you try this, and stick to normal ranges :good:

[dougall]

''some people told me that some other lads from the valleys''......sounds really scietific..in fact its total proof 'MeLord'....so they shot lots of foxes dead at exactly 68 yards did they?? What a truly helpful and informative post.Did you post this sat on the throne and get confused between the 2 tasks?

[EdSolomons]

Just spat my coffee out- brilliant!

[highseas]

just as a matter of intrest

thier is a warrener dvd where they shoot a fox drive and get one fox over 70m away

theirs a australian dvd where thet chap says he can shoot foxes at 70m all day long

and even robert bucknell`s book says its doable but yuo have to hold over

[dougall]

OK OK..I often take Bison at 12 miles with my .177 air rifle(full 12 lb mind),but I need 2 miles of holdover and not when its too windy....my DVD 'before I woke up' comes out for Xmas.

[elmar fudd]

really dunno why some people get so ****** over stuff like this to be honest, ive been told something by a very good freind who i have seen shoot hundreds of times and know full well he is a FANTASTIC shot, probably better than many of us on here! and to tell you the truth he said the fox was shot through full choke through high al390 and i do beleive him, just wondered how far a shell could kill at, really dunno why people do get soo ******... perhaps jelousy of never shooting more then 20 yards?

 

fudd