Dekers Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 with out wanting to start a huge debate on this thread , sporting to me is loosey used when a bird is in flight it has a sporting chance of not getting shot . on the floor or sitting on the end of your barrells is a whole differant thing . The thread is called... "SPORTING ! " what do you think ?... I think that's what the OP wanted... and it's Hearsay Remember (you know, "last night I had a phone call from my mate who told me about a friend of his who knew someone that told him he'd heard from his other mate......" ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silpig5 Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 The thread is called... "SPORTING ! " what do you think ?... I think that's what the OP wanted... and it's Hearsay Remember (you know, "last night I had a phone call from my mate who told me about a friend of his who knew someone that told him he'd heard from his other mate......" ) granted and i accept that , but having been in game syndicates for nearly twenty years i have never seen anyone pull a trigger on a bird sitting on ground (except wounded) . come to think of it i have never even heard of circling a pond and shooting birds . beggers belief what some guns will do for a kill . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Let me be very clear on this, I am not supporting this syndicate, and I am not joining your rounded condemnation, it now appears even this female facebook poster wasn't there! It's getting smellier all the time, and I believe some jump a little too soon, but hey, it's a free world and it's what forums are all about!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted January 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Spot on fella.The thread isnt deserving of a serious answer so till some evidence shows up we are to go by a bitter sounding OPs conversation via telephone??No thanks. Why did you bother leaving a reply then better to say nothing if you have nothing worth saying. We heard from one of the people who were there, who would not take part in it,and if you want to call him a lier then go ahead.what you seem to be saying is you agree in shooting sitting ducks well if thats where shootings going then its a sorry state of affairs,and you might as well go down to Bernard Matterws shed and get yourself something for sunday lunch. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted January 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Let me be very clear on this, I am not supporting this syndicate, and I am not joining your rounded condemnation, it now appears even this female facebook poster wasn't there! It's getting smellier all the time, and I believe some jump a little too soon, but hey, it's a free world and it's what forums are all about!! For your informatiom the face book poster is the Mrs of one of the syindicate members who was not there yesterday.So unless you were there! and give us your side of what happened! you seen very much to be supporting what was going on. And as for the smell,maybe be you stood in something on your way in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Why did you bother leaving a reply then better to say nothing if you have nothing worth saying. We heard from one of the people who were there, who would not take part in it,and if you want to call him a lier then go ahead.what you seem to be saying is you agree in shooting sitting ducks well if thats where shootings going then its a sorry state of affairs,and you might as well go down to Bernard Matterws shed and get yourself something for sunday lunch. Dave. He didn't call anyone a lier and he didn't condone shooting ducks in this fashion! Chill out gamekeeper1960, I'm the one suggesting caution and putting another viewpoint, and you are the one once again making assumptions, if you didn't want a discussion and wanted everyone to follow like sheep you shouldn't have asked for one, "SPORTING! " what do you think ? it's a Forum, people give opinions! Edited January 29, 2012 by Dekers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 For your informatiom the face book poster is the Mrs of one of the syindicate members who was not there yesterday.So unless you were there! and give us your side of what happened! you seen very much to be supporting what was going on More assumptions, show me ONE line where I have supported the syndicate . And as for the smell,maybe be you stood in something on your way in. More Hearsay as already noted, and you seem to just keep making more assumptions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Why did you bother leaving a reply then better to say nothing if you have nothing worth saying. We heard from one of the people who were there, who would not take part in it,and if you want to call him a lier then go ahead.shoowhat you seem to be saying is you agree in ting sitting ducks well if thats where shootings going then its a sorry state of affairs,and you might as well go down to Bernard Matterws shed and get yourself something for sunday lunch. Dave. I didnt,i said they might have been swimming or bobbing aboot and then it would have been harder than shooting sitting ducks.If it was frozen then they could have been skating making them a very testing bird indeed.Apologies for not having a heart attack at the disgusting hearsay actions which might never have taken place.Its funny you mention in the original post that you hoped nobody had seen it from the path,then whoa and behold,a wife of a member that was beating somewhere else happened to be walking there and has a rant on FB.I also dont believe the shoot has so many bad eggs in one basket that would allow it to happen,but stranger things have happened.Christ,the USA even claim to have put a man on the moon.Must go,church and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Ok, let me just be as accurate as possible on this, perhaps I haven't read this right, are you actually saying this lady was not there, or her syndicate member husband was not there? Put another way, is this entire thread based on what a lady saw from a footpath, told her husband who phoned you to put a down on a syndicate, which he is a member of , and that you have issues with? I simply want to make sure this is what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpicide Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I didnt,i said they might have been swimming or bobbing aboot and then it would have been harder than shooting sitting ducks.If it was frozen then they could have been skating making them a very testing bird indeed.Apologies for not having a heart attack at the disgusting hearsay actions which might never have taken place.Its funny you mention in the original post that you hoped nobody had seen it from the path,then whoa and behold,a wife of a member that was beating somewhere else happened to be walking there and has a rant on FB.I also dont believe the shoot has so many bad eggs in one basket that would allow it to happen,but stranger things have happened.Christ,the USA even claim to have put a man on the moon.Must go,church and all that. You must forgive sako he's from Aberdeen they've no got the "electric" up there yet This Type of Post from Scotland is known as "Ripping The ****" I'm not comenting on the original post cos I shoot foxes with a shotgun when they've been bolted by a terrier so I know **** all about "sport" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I have read that at night, when it's dark, some people dress in camouflage and sit under a hedge with a night vision scope fitted to their high powered rifle. Then, when unsuspecting foxes and rabbits stand still, these sportsmen shoot them, when, low and behold, other forum members pat them on the back and congratulate them on their sporting prowess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Puntgunning....sporting?Sport is two opponents(or more)competing on an equal footing,as an anti once told me.Hardly describes shooting a pheasant in the face as it is driven towards you does it? Edited January 29, 2012 by Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAD1927 Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I think people are losing track of this thread. Hear say or not the question was "is this sporting" IMO I would suggest not..... 10,000 pheasants being driven then shot - not sporting! - more money than sense Shooting fox/rabbit at night lamping or NVG - not sporting! - pest control! shooting pigeons on the ground - not sporting! shooting pigeons in flight - sporting/pest control shooting ducks/geese in flight - sporting shooting sitting ducks - NOT SPORTING!!!! Me personally if the shot is not safe, above my limit or going to destroy the meat I do not take it unless its pest control, anyoneone who does IMO should question their own morals. If the ducks dont want to fly then sadly for the great white hunter he is/should be going hungry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I just think the damned ducks were being very unsporting in refusing to fly and got what they deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stavvy Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I think people are losing track of this thread. Hear say or not the question was "is this sporting" IMO I would suggest not..... 10,000 pheasants being driven then shot - not sporting! - more money than sense Shooting fox/rabbit at night lamping or NVG - not sporting! - pest control! shooting pigeons on the ground - not sporting! shooting pigeons in flight - sporting/pest control shooting ducks/geese in flight - sporting shooting sitting ducks - NOT SPORTING!!!! Me personally if the shot is not safe, above my limit or going to destroy the meat I do not take it unless its pest control, anyoneone who does IMO should question their own morals. If the ducks dont want to fly then sadly for the great white hunter he is/should be going hungry. What's the difference between shooting a pigeon and a pheasant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 What's the difference between shooting a pigeon and a pheasant? I think the difference is between a wild bird which is a pest having a good chance of getting away from a gun compared to birds born and reared with the sole purpose of being driven towards a number of guns for pleasure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayano3 Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) I will not get involved in the Sporting part of this but would be rather worried if someone was sat opposite me on a flight pond shooting ducks off the water. IMHO Morally it is wrong to shoot duck from water as it is shooting anything sat. But once the said target has made off and got a fair distance to provide a challenging shot then to me its fair game. Like I said, its definitely a safety issue that leads onto other things. Where is this shoot by the way, maybe its not far for me if I want a duck for tea one night this week ?? Edited January 29, 2012 by ayano3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAD1927 Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I think the difference is between a wild bird which is a pest having a good chance of getting away from a gun compared to birds born and reared with the sole purpose of being driven towards a number of guns for pleasure! My thoughts exactly. I am part of a pheasant syndicate but we only shoot airbourne birds and if the bird is damaged (shot to pieces)the offending gun is awarded a yellow card for unsporting behaviour!!! All our birds are wild and are topped up with ex-layers (100 - 150)every year no pens and all we do is feed them. The rest of the year we just shoot pigeon, crow, magpie etc. for this we pay a small fee (less than £100 per year) Local shoots attract the hooray henry's who are willing to pay anything up to £5000 for a days shooting, I have helped on these shoots and they are not to different to a days clay shooting as all the birds are driven in 1 direction and reality is you cant really miss. My thoughts are this if you want a sporting shot or bird there are plenty of opportunities but you have to do the work yourself decoying stalking etc if you just want to do mindless murder then shoot ducks on a pond or clay pheasants on a big shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWD Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I used to pick up for a syndicate years ago and they had this problem of flightless ducks...the gamekeeper suggested they be shot end of season on the water to rid the pond of the problem then put down some new stock..start a fresh . Not for me but maybe there may be some logic in it..after all you dont want to supporting ducks all year to have the same problem again next year. I wouldn't class it as sporting at all...but a necessary evil maybe. Like to know a gamekeepers view on this . I am not advocating shooting these birds on the water for fun..that would be plain wrong , but just wondering if a keepers opinion may see some logic in this action...sorry driven ducks ain't my thing anyway, not a fan of shooting them as they tend to be kept as a back up plan to give guns some easy g'teed shooting on some pheasant light shoots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Mmmmmm an interesting topic,the word sporting will mean something different to everyone.but on the topic of shooting duck on the water in some countries this will be fair game but in the UK it isnt as we like the birds in the air, how high in the air will depend on the individuals ability,Iam sure we have seen it time and time again on shoots someones high bid is a low bird for a good shot. but going back to "kept" duck anyone who has ever shot kept duck will see throughout the season the ones that fly there will always be the ones that are reluctent to leave the pond,unfotunatley these will still be there when the best birds have been shot. usually there shot on the QT by the keeper on the water to get rid of them,no diffrent to the guys standong arou d shooting them only difference it wont be a spectacle unlike this crowd,at the end of the day its a job that need to be done sporting or not.unless you leave them down that is and let them starve as they wont be getting fed which must be cruel and deffinatley "not sporting" Edited January 29, 2012 by Ackley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 At seasons end on a local commercial shoot,all ducks which had failed to fly would be herded into the back of an old box trailer and head shot with air rifles before being sold to the game dealer.Don't know if it's still done. I still fail to see the difference between the incident in the OP's post and puntgunning,which consisted of floating into a group of sitting ducks(the larger the group the better)with a small cannon mounted on a boat and then blasting them when within range.Was this considered sporting?Does anyone shoot ducks by this method? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWD Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) The sporting part may come in the action to achieve the shot..admittedly Punt Gunning is basically like shooting small birds with a canon...but you have to get within range (just like a predator ) then use a fair amount of skill to judge the point of firing, its not without risk either floating about on a marsh miles from anyone in the middle of winter..I would say you have earned the kill more so than shooting a fox from a nice warm 4x4...and I ain't against that either Edited January 29, 2012 by PWD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 At seasons end on a local commercial shoot,all ducks which had failed to fly would be herded into the back of an old box trailer and head shot with air rifles before being sold to the game dealer.Don't know if it's still done. I still fail to see the difference between the incident in the OP's post and puntgunning,which consisted of floating into a group of sitting ducks(the larger the group the better)with a small cannon mounted on a boat and then blasting them when within range.Was this considered sporting?Does anyone shoot ducks by this method? Scully Yes, it's still done. I suppose the nearest analogy is to compare stalking wildfowl in this manner to stalking deer !!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry P Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 What saddens me about this thread is just how quickly and willingly people start to run down other aspects of shooting that they are usually not involved in, and are so quick to condem when all facts and both sides are not available to comment. United we stand,i'm sure you know the rest. I still fail to see the difference between the incident in the OP's post and puntgunning,which consisted of floating into a group of sitting ducks(the larger the group the better)with a small cannon mounted on a boat and then blasting them when within range.Was this considered sporting?Does anyone shoot ducks by this method? I feel I can comment on this, I was taken by a member of a wildfowling club puntgunning only the once and that because once was enough,lying flat in a canoe in constant fear of capsizing,getting wet and freezing was the easy bit,trying to control a boat in the tide,then trying to line up a shot in a slowing moving and gently(most of the time)rocking boat has to be one of the hardest shots to make i've ever witnessed,most punt shots are taken as the birds lift thus increasing your chance of hitting birds as your shot opens up. I spent 4 hours in that punt for not a shot as either birds were to spaced out, to high on the bank or we could not get with in range, so i think to compare it to standing round a pond and shooting ducks on the water is a bit off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Thanks for the explanation Terry P,and while I can appreciate the difficuilty/skill employed in manouvering the punt into such a position as to be able to take the shot,I still don't see it as any more 'sporting' than any other method of shooting prey,unless you regard the amount of difficuilty involved as a pre-requisite for the 'sporting' shot. Perhaps my comparison wasn't justified,but as you stated;'most(but not all?)punt shots are taken as the birds lift thus increasing your chance of hitting birds....'therefore the whole point of the process is to shoot as many as possible,is it not? I have never 'run down other aspects of shooting';on the contrary I'm in favour of ALL shooting disciplines,but when someone starts to waffle on about shooting living creatures as a 'sport' it gets on my tits! If anyone is so ashamed of what they do that they are forced to try and justify it under the pretext of 'sport' then perhaps they should call it a day in my opinion.You are shooting creatures because you enjoy it,pure and simple;if you don't,stop doing it.I love shooting,I live for it.It is my thing.It dosen't mean I'll shoot anything and everything,and I may let a low bird go by,but it's not from any misconception of sport,more likely from a safety aspect,or that close in shots render meat uneatable. Some people get a thrill from riding their bike at 140mph down the M6,I get mine from shooting....'sport' doesn't come into it. Neither does this mean I'm an unfeeling,blood thirsty moron,;I don't grin like a cheshire cat each time I kill something;I can appreciate the gorgeous plumage and the beauty of a magnificent cock pheasant,and am often quite saddened by the death of a fantastic Roe buck,but it's never stopped me shooting another.I wont shoot foxes unless specifically asked to,simply because I quite like foxes.Do it as quickly and as humanely as possible.Rugby,tennis,badminton and even football are sports,killing things for pleasure isn't.Rant over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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