Snake Breaking

[new to the flock]

I have talked to a number of people who have had encounters between their dogs and adders in the UK. I have also been told that there seems to be an increase in the adder population over the past couple of years, which in turn means an increase in a chance of encountering one.

 

Now if your dog does get bit, get him to a vet immediatly. Carry him to the car do not make him walk ,and I find that giving a Benadryle antihistamine helps to keep the airways open. However check with your Vet to see what kind of antihistamine they recommend over there as some have additives that are not good for the dog.

 

Depending on what part of the country I am running in I have a whole bunch of nasties that the dogs can come up against. Diamondback Rattlesnake, Timber Rattlesnake, Massassaga Rattlesnake, Copper Head, and Water Moccosin are just a few of the Nastier ones. On the mild side and right around home we have some very aggressive non poisonous snakes that will just make your dog very sick through secondary infection, these include the Water snake....biggest one that I have seen has been 8 feet.....Foxsnake....about 5 foot average....and the Milksnake about 4 foot average.I know many of you do not agree with the use of an electronic collar, however if you have to choose between a dead dog and using an E-collar for this program, I hope you would choose the collar.

 

The best way to keep your dog safe is to teach him/her that ALL snakes are bad, and to teach them to avoid them by sight, smell and sound. Now seeing as the United Kingdom has no Rattlesnakes we will only deal with sight and scent. Do not worry you do not have to use a poisonous snake for this, it is best however to use 2 or 3 different species of snakes to enforce the lessons. This will teach your dog that all snakes are to be avoided and not just the one species. Be sure to release any snake that you use back where it came from.

 

The following is the program that I use.

 

STEP 1 SIGHT AVOIDANCE

 

To teach your dog to avoid "Old Mr No Shoulders" You first teach him to leave him alone when he see him. To do this place a snake upon an open piece of ground, and block his path until he coils up as in a defence mode.

 

Have your dog approach the snake from the upwind side. When the dog lowers his head toward the snake to investigate it, use your electronic collar to deliver a high level shock. This shock is to be a very short stimulation. A one second stimulation is more than enough. If you are using a new collar than you will have a feature called momentary stimulation, this is perfect for this type of training.

 

Be sure that the dog has committed to the snake through sighting it before delivering any form of correction.

 

You should repeate this exercise in atleast 6 locations using atleast 3 differant types of snakes.

 

STEP 2 SCENT AVOIDANCE

 

For this portion of the training hide the snake in a small patch of cover. Bring the dog in from the down wind side. Watch your dog very carefully, as soon as he indecates that he scents the snake, but does not try to move away, use the electronic collar as you did in the sight stage of training.

 

If your dog comes into the area of cover, scents the snake and moves off on his own, praise him and allow him to move out of the area. Again repeat this exercise 6 times in differant locations using 3 differant types of snakes.

 

Your dog should now move to avoid all snakes encountered in the field after this training program. I personnally run my dogs through a refresher course each year. This is usually just a quick version of the above with one snake, and I usually never have to push the stimulation button during this procedure as the dogs want nothing to do with the snake.

 

 

NTTF

[NorfolkBoy]

Good post NTTF......especially the Benadryl tip....

 

Taking delivery of our Norwich Terrier in the next two weeks, so that was a timely reminder for me given the large number of water snakes that we're seeing here in NJ at the moment...... Posionous or not...all snakes give me the shivers, unlike "her indoors" two terriers who'll stand up to anything.....

[new to the flock]

Good post NTTF......especially the Benadryl tip....

 

Taking delivery of our Norwich Terrier in the next two weeks, so that was a timely reminder for me given the large number of water snakes that we're seeing here in NJ at the moment...... Posionous or not...all snakes give me the shivers, unlike "her indoors" two terriers who'll stand up to anything.....

 

Norfolkboy:

 

Seeing that you are in the USA, I can add the sound part of the program aswell for you if you like.....depends if you are near any populations of Rattlesnakes though.

 

NTTF

[NorfolkBoy]

Thanks BUT no thanks NTTF...... I can live without the sound.....Will probably have nightmares as it is.... :blink:

Fortunately NJ is only home to two venomous snakes, namely the Northern Copperhead and the Timber Rattlesnake....... and neither are in my backyard...as it were...Due to the swamps that constitute NE NJ the water snake is a common sight, normally on the roads and somewhat flatter than normal....

[mossy835]

nice bit of reading nttf, but iv not seen a adder over here for 30 years think they best keep out of my way as i hate snakes.give me the xxxxs.

[Ferret Master]

I used to have a pet milksnake and I currently have a pet corn snake. HISSSS!

[mossy835]

one of my daughters wants a snake,snake in she is out.

[Sundowner]

came across and adder last year while out mushrooming. DOg was already in the car. Snakes are seldom seen around here !

[Mungler]

Saw an adder only 2 weeks ago on the Orsett golf course whilst I was searching for one of many lost golf balls.

 

Tell you what, it moved quickly.... but not as fast as me in the opposite direction mind you.

[danccooke]

we have a 16 week old Rhodesian Ridgeback(Zak), and a 2 year old Royal Python(Borris).

 

I have been loathed to let them meet, The python alothough couldn't eat Zak could do him some serious harm if he managed to coil him, and likewise claws and teeth on Zak would see to Borris.

 

The question do I use Borris to train Zak that snakes are bad? Borris is very placid and has never even attempted to bite anyone, I don't think I want to run the risk of scareing him into not trusting me. Likewise I don't want Zak having a change to get his teeth into Borris. Zak appears to have no fear at all.

 

I am in the UK and I have seen Adders in my area over the last couple of years, normally I would follow and try and Photograph. hmmmmm interesting conundrum

[Dave-Maximus]

Just incase people do not know the difference. This is a grass snake.

[celtic invader]

I was bitten by an adder when I was 15 and can assure you its not funny.

 

Good advice.

[carl-finnegan]

Hey all, Get comfy but do read

 

i only just registered on here n tripped up on this post, i might be able to shed a bit of light on this (no punn intended)

 

I am a DWA animal keeper which means i am licenced to handle and breed venomous animals.

 

first off sound advice on teaching your dog to avoid them. You will actually find that most uk venomous snakes are nowhere near as agressive as the non venomous ones.

 

The good news is all snakes are heat receptive, when the cold weather sets in all uk snakes will do one of two things.... find warmth and stay there (im not going into this one cos it might freak some people out. Or the ones out in the wilds go into a dormant state, yes they can still bite if you tap it on the nose, but generally the snake will be too cold to have lightning reactions of summer months.

 

Theres 3 native snakes to the uk.

**Common grass snake, yes they will strike or bite if a big wet nose or clumsy paw comes along, Grass snake bites are usually 2 puncture parks and often remain unnraised.

**Smooth snakes are the most rare and normally hang out near water. They have a VERY slight venom and are constrictors. A bite off one of these guys will really make your pooch schreak, being contrictors they have the strongest powered bite in the uk.. usually a larger puncure area with more bleeding, bite can raise due to mild toxins

** Viper/Adder. This lil swine is the problem causer, to a human its bite is painful, for your dog a problem, it injects venom using hollowed fangs which are fuelled by venom glands. The venom is a neurotoxin design to paralise prey.

 

The main spider that can cause pooch problems is the false widow spider. They are fairly shy and dont often come into contact with us that often during the winter, Although this summer i had one in my shed, COOOOL

 

last but not least is our six legged friend the scorpion, Yes the last creature you expected to see roaming wild in the uk. the European Yellow Tailed Scorpian is one of the most venomous native creatures of the UK, a whack off this lil bad boy can kill a kid or elderly/frail person but dont flee for the hills, they live in very sparse collonys, are very rare anyway, and dont do well in the cold, Their venom is injected through the tail although a clip off the pinsor can hurt puncture mark is usually small but the venom is quick and painfull! i got caught off one of these at home, all i can describe it as is having anathetic injected before u go under, that sting feeling. If pooch gets hit by one of these u have a major problem but as i said the are very rare, hide out in dry or rocky areas. popular areas for these have been kent & portsmouth & solent areas last summer.

 

so what if pooch gets whacked, No matter what take him to a vet! Benadryl as mentioned is great and the Liquid kind is brilliant if pooch goes into anaphylactic shock, (look for tongue, jowels swelling or change in breathing)

 

NEVER PUT PRESSURE ON A BITE YOUR GUARENTEED TO MAKE A VENOMOUS BITE OR STING WORSE BY SPREADING.

If your pooch is bit on the leg, tie either rope or what you have as tight as you can upstream of the bite (between the dogs body and bite).. again AVOID THE BITE! even if its bleeding, let it bleed ur dog wont drain off a bite. keep him warm n put your foot down to your local vet.

 

Well thats me done, if anyone is in the essex area and are feeling brave i own uk adders, and have some yellow tail scorpions if you want to familiarise yourself.

 

Sorry for the super long post but theres ya info lol... hope u find this info useful.. time for a brew

 

** forgot to mention there are subspecies of these at the top but not too many lol

Edited October 22, 2009 by carl-finnegan

[darren m]

re- different snakes and the false widow

would like to see some comparison pictures if you can put them up

 

thanks

[apache]

NEVER PUT PRESSURE ON A BITE YOUR GUARENTEED TO MAKE A VENOMOUS BITE OR STING WORSE BY SPREADING.

If your pooch is bit on the leg, tie either rope or what you have as tight as you can upstream of the bite (between the dogs body and bite).. again AVOID THE BITE! even if its bleeding, let it bleed ur dog wont drain off a bite. keep him warm n put your foot down to your local vet.

 

Good post, but I have to take you to task here. NEVER EVER apply a tourniquet on a limb if a dog is bitten by a snake. It does no good and can cause harm (worst case loss of the limb). Tourniquets used be used in humans but there use has been discontinued as there is no increase in survival. I can pull some papers if you need me to?

 

Any anti-histamine will help but are not licensed and only should be given in an emergency. Often no venom is injected after a bite and it is rare for vets to use anti-venom after bites. Usually animals are treated with steroids, anti-histamines and painkillers (sometime with IV fluids). It is common for animals to have a more sever reaction to the anti-venom than they did the original snake bite.

 

I've seen a few bites in dogs and not one has been fatal. None have received anti-venom.

 

(more than happy to discuss this further here or via PM )

[carl-finnegan]

hey matey,

 

I have been in touch with John Wombey (the snake & reptile god from Australia Nat Geo) to ask about this as i received this info from the licencing for my venomous snakes and was OBV converned... following a huge email he advised this from his book How are snake bites treated?

 

 

 

• Immobilize the bitten area and keep it lower than the heart.
  
• Cover the area with a clean, cool compress or a moist dressing to minimize swelling and discomfort.
  
• Monitor vital signs.
  

If you are unable to reach medical care within 30 minutes, the American Red Cross recommends:

 

• Apply a bandage, wrapped two to four inches above the bite, to help slow the venom. This should not cut off the flow of blood from a vein or artery - the band should be loose enough to slip a finger under it.
  
• A suction device can be placed over the bite to help draw venom out of the wound without making cuts. These devices are often included in commercial snake bite kits.
  

(im guessing this is for +1 snakes??

 

 

 

So im a little stumped, i have contacted the university too to shed some light, there seems to be a huge grey area over this though hmmmm, gonna get on to the licencing folk too me thinks?

[carl-finnegan]

ive just noticed his red cross comment in his email, im thinkin he aint reading my emails correctly and is thinking this is for human treatment.??

 

im having a bad day, have emailed him and will find out if this was intentional?

[DaveM]

nice bit of reading nttf, but iv not seen a adder over here for 30 years think they best keep out of my way as i hate snakes.give me the xxxxs.

 

Adders are very common here in Norfolk, see them sunbathing out in the open all the time. Just have to keep an eye on the dog to make sure they she doesn't go for them.

[Len2016]

while ferreting on boxing day a few years ago a couple men on our shoot while diggging a layup there terrier was biten by a hybernating adder that dog died but it was about twelve years old also in the summer an eightien month old english springer spaniel was biten on tge side of the nose after five minutes it looked like an english bullterrier we were lucky a vet was close by but the dog was on a drip

[Dr D]

St Patrick took care of them all apparently. So, there's no need to worry here.