Big Marty Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Asked a while back had anyone heard of a price jump in the fee for the FAC..Heard yesterday from a very good source that it is to go up to £150 but not till next year..April I hear.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 What source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super sharp shooter Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Brown or red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeedoodlepigeon Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Tomato :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scimitar Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Asked a while back had anyone heard of a price jump in the fee for the FAC..Heard yesterday from a very good source that it is to go up to £150 but not till next year..April I hear.. Yes the cost maybe due to go up by quite a large ammount. ACPO want the rise as the fee at the moment doesn't cover all costs involved and licence costs are being subsidized. Hopefully any increase is used to improve licencing. Edited March 11, 2012 by scimitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william1 Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 there will be a lot of people give the shooting up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 I'm not aware of any official source that has said that is will definitely be increased. The police have asked for it but that's not to say they will get it. There was also talk of them starting to charge for doing a change of address but I think that would require primary legislation so that's probably unlikely. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Marty Posted March 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 The man that I spoke to is the REP for the BASC on the policing board over here, He said he is 100% sure it will rise next year.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Yes the cost maybe due to go up by quite a large ammount. ACPO want the rise as the fee at the moment doesn't cover all costs involved and licence costs are being subsidized. Hopefully any increase is used to improve licencing. Some say it is the public that benefit from certification not the shooter so they should subsidise it, personally i can see it going to passport esque prices but think there should be a full overhaul not just increase the prices and £150 over 5 years rather than £50 big increase but in real terms when you look at other costs will it mean lots giving up? NI is a different box of badgers entirely these rumours have been going for over a year and nothing yet, as soon as it is announced there will be a mass of renewals and applications! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 there will be a lot of people give the shooting up Yep If I can't find that extra 40p a week I'll be taking a long, hard look at other hobbies that don't cost a penny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 The man that I spoke to is the REP for the BASC on the policing board over here, He said he is 100% sure it will rise next year.... von????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Thankfully mines due for renewal this august. Let us all hope we get a bit more transparency and equality across all force areas. Time for BASC to tell everyone what they are doing to keep the rise low or to obtain guarantees about equivalent standards and licensing approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 If I can't find that extra 40p a week I'll be taking a long, hard look at other hobbies that don't cost a penny. Haha! Someone had to go and look at it in a sesible manner! When you look at the work that goes into checking us out and compare it to say a rod license to go fishing, we get a very good deal at the moment. £150 for five years wouldn't be unfair I don't think. I'd be happy to pay it - it's only £30 per year and you'll do well to go fishing for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onefulham Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Fishing licence also pays for water quality checks, and bailiffs, research into fish stocks, etc, what do you get for a SGC except a piece of paper that says the public should be safe with that person holding a firearm ? Edited March 11, 2012 by onefulham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Fishing licence also pays for water quality checks, and bailiffs, research into fish stocks, etc, what do you get for a SGC except a piece of paper that says the public should be safe with that person holding a firearm ? FAC are more indepth, land checks etc perhaps FAC will go up and SGC not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onefulham Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Don't believe either should go up but DO believe they will, they probably will not improve the service so varied across the country, just charge more and blame it on cut backs, but then sneak in more charges than they need to subsidise other areas, the public believe shooters are a bunch of rich toffs anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloke Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 I think it is incredibly good value at present and don't mind paying extra BUT, if I pay more, I expect the service to improve, no more " Oh, don't expect anything for at least twelve weeks" rubbish ! As someone in the area where the FEOs are going under G4S as of first of April, they haven't had any confirmation of any increase in the future, at least according to the administrator-type person I talked to on Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 I know water checks etc come from the license fees, but I think gun certificates are more involved for each applicant. Think about it - every person who applies needs to have land checked and a home visit. That involves fuel and a mans wages. Then references need to be checked and doctors contacted - again a blokes wages. Then it needs to be signed off and sent out. Every shooter has to go through that process. Say a fishing lake needs to be tested - that's one bloke to get water and someone to test it. Share that cost between the couple of hundred license holders that fish there... See where I'm coming from. As it is I can change a gun if I want and that's free too. Why? I've asked for a service and I really do feel that I get a lot for my £50. I've had (I think) 15 slots on my FAC for rifles and god knows how many mods in this term and I've paid a variation on maybe five? That's a lot of work for £50! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 As it is I can change a gun if I want and that's free too. Why? I've asked for a service and I really do feel that I get a lot for my £50. I've had (I think) 15 slots on my FAC for rifles and god knows how many mods in this term and I've paid a variation on maybe five? That's a lot of work for £50! Indeed, but thats why increasing prices wont help, allowing RFD's to do 1 for 1 variations would speed everything up. £17.50 for a variation? Thats regardless of what is involved, adding a .17hmr to someone with an open cert and has .243 and .22LR is totally different to adding a .243 for someone on a closed cert! Perhaps land checks should be charged and all variations free? I really do think we would all be better served by an overhauled system all this faff over open and closed tickets, variations, land checks etc if your a safe shot with a .223 why aren't you safe with a .243 or .308? OR safe with a .243 why cant you add a .223 or .222 or .22WMR? It will never happen but it's a nice idea.... in the US you walk into a shop they do everything over the phone and walk out an hour later why can it not be the same for a certificated person in the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 And you get a pensioner's concession rate with the fishing licence! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 This isn't really about 'value for money' or 'service'. The only reason that licensing exists - so we are told - is public safety. If it's a public safety measure then it should be paid for by the state. If there is some additional point to it, over and above strict public safety requirement, then it should be optional and the price should reflect what we are getting for it. In addition to that, I think it can be quite reasonably said that a lot of what already goes on is nothing to do with public safety and could be scrapped. One thing which springs immediately to mind that the thing we've been discussing on another thread - the issue of declaring convctions. It is totally pointless as the police already know what you have. OK, it's only a little thing but it's one more thing the police have to look at that they don't need to do. The issue of referees/counter signatory's is another case in point. What does it actually achieve? Very, very little, I would suggest. No one is going to provide a referee who is going to bad-mouth them to the police so why bother having any? A massive amount of time and money could be saved by simplifying the procedure for granting authorities for particular guns. I cannot see any public safety benefit in authorising individual guns by calibre and type. Obviusly, you need to show that you have the required 'good reason' so they couldn't authorise a .22rf for deer meaning that there would have to be some overview of the calibres people were acquiring. However, it doesn't need to be as in depth as it is now. There is no reason as to why a certificate cannot simply allow you to purchase a rifle in any legal calibre for shooting deer - they can do this now, if they want so no law change would be required. There is absolutely no public safety consideration as to whether you have a .308, .243, 8mm or 44 cal rifle. One ios not more dangerous than another, although the police and home office would happily tell you otherwise. The one thing that should definitely be challenged by the likes of BASC, especially if the fees go up massively, is the way by which the police take payment for your FAC/SGC. At present, I think it's the case that every force area requires you to pay up front and then refunds you if you are unsuccessful. This is illegal. A public authority has no power to demand money from anyone unless Parliament has given them authorisation to do so. Parliament has authorised the police to make a charge for granting a FAC/SGC (the amount is set by the Home Secrertary) but they cannot demand it until they actually grant the cert and not when you put in your application. If the law in this respect is not changed (which only Parliament can do, not the Home Secretary) then cert holders should start refusing to pay up front. It is not reasonable that the police should have £150 of a persons money if they have no authority to do so, especially given how long it takes some forces to get a cert issued! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Asked a while back had anyone heard of a price jump in the fee for the FAC..Heard yesterday from a very good source that it is to go up to £150 but not till next year..April I hear.. £150 still good value i go fishing as well as shooting and pay about £30 a year for rod license works out £150 for 5 years so its only on a parr with fishing colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Indeed, but thats why increasing prices wont help, allowing RFD's to do 1 for 1 variations would speed everything up. £17.50 for a variation? Thats regardless of what is involved, adding a .17hmr to someone with an open cert and has .243 and .22LR is totally different to adding a .243 for someone on a closed cert! Perhaps land checks should be charged and all variations free? I really do think we would all be better served by an overhauled system all this faff over open and closed tickets, variations, land checks etc if your a safe shot with a .223 why aren't you safe with a .243 or .308? OR safe with a .243 why cant you add a .223 or .222 or .22WMR? It will never happen but it's a nice idea.... in the US you walk into a shop they do everything over the phone and walk out an hour later why can it not be the same for a certificated person in the UK? Absolutely, nail hit squarely on head, spot on! None of the things you mention (apart from the need to vary a cert for a diferent gun) are required by law. All this stuff has been invented over the years by the police and home office. It's in place because shooters (mostly) are spineless and won't challenge things. I appreciate that people are sometimes reluctant to challenge the police but it only takes one or two to do it. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 £150 still good value i go fishing as well as shooting and pay about £30 a year for rod license works out £150 for 5 years so its only on a parr with fishing colin Disagree it isn't good value. True, it isn't a lot of money over five years but I don't think it's good value. The police aren't doing work for you over those five years and the length of time it takes them to issue a cert (up to six months in some jurisdictions) makes it very, very poor value indeed, I think. That's not taking into consideration how many mistakes they make in the process. I don't think that my cert has come back from the police without a mistake in years. I have had serial numbers wrong, ammo left on when the rifle for it has been disposed of, the wrong type of ammo issued, a firearm written on as a rifle when in fact it was only an action, the list goes on and on and on. I was talkign to a chap the pther day who has been applying for an SGC for almost a year because they lost his application....twice! I know other people who have had certificates granted but with no ammunition allocation and numerous other avoidable problems. The whole system is an absolute disgrace, to be honest. If it were shooters who were making these mistakes then certificates would be getting yanked right, left and centre. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Disagree it isn't good value. True, it isn't a lot of money over five years but I don't think it's good value. The police aren't doing work for you over those five years and the length of time it takes them to issue a cert (up to six months in some jurisdictions) makes it very, very poor value indeed, I think. That's not taking into consideration how many mistakes they make in the process. I don't think that my cert has come back from the police without a mistake in years. I have had serial numbers wrong, ammo left on when the rifle for it has been disposed of, the wrong type of ammo issued, a firearm written on as a rifle when in fact it was only an action, the list goes on and on and on. I was talkign to a chap the pther day who has been applying for an SGC for almost a year because they lost his application....twice! I know other people who have had certificates granted but with no ammunition allocation and numerous other avoidable problems. The whole system is an absolute disgrace, to be honest. If it were shooters who were making these mistakes then certificates would be getting yanked right, left and centre. J. i have heard lots of people saying how bad their police are but both my fac and sgc took less than 5 weeks each from start to Finnish and my variation 4 days so for me its worth it but see what your saying, thank colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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