30-6 Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 I am not a deer stalker but enjoy reading and watching it in the mags and on the internet. But one thing puzzles me, how do you feel safe taking the shot ? What i mean is when i aim at a rabbit with a rimfire the backstop is good as i am shooting into the earth due to the small size of the target being close to the ground. In many situations ( especially woods it seems ), the stalker is disturbed by ramblers, dog walkers or courting couples. With the height of the deer off the ground, how can you be sure that there is no idiot in line of the exiting bullet where they should not be ? I have read on several occasions that at about the time of the shot a human strolls into view. Not trying to stir up an argument, just a question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Exactly the same parameters apply, a safe backstop, ie the ground, behind the target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Exactly. The last time this was asked the conclusion was not to walk in woods in Hertfordshire, ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Exactly. The last time this was asked the conclusion was not to walk in woods in Hertfordshire, ever. I remember that thread, it was a bit worrying seeing some people's attitude towards sending high powered bullets flying anywhere they fancied without looking or caring that the path was clear! As already said, the usual rules still apply to deerstalking, as the angles are different it does mean that some shots can't be taken compared to if it were a rabbit, but that's just part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmshooter Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 At the end of the day there is only so much you can do to ensure you take a safe shot, its fairly rare that anyone has been shot by a bullet that was aimed at or has passed through a deer. Im a farmer, and the amount of time we tell people to stay on the footpath, even with big signs around saying no entry no right of way etc etc they dont seem to get it, mabye if a few people did get shot they may stay where they are ment to walk Fs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) You can get special shooting warning signs with a silhouette of someone with a rifle. They use them on an estate near me. Edited May 19, 2012 by Thunderbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) To follow the old rule of thumb, extend your arm with your index finger held out straight following the horizon. If there is solid ground equivalent to the width of your finger showing above the deer's back, the shot is safe. Of course this margin varies hugely with range and a large dose of common sense is required. Essentially, whenever you take a shot with a rifle, of any calibre, you must be able to see the point where the bullet, following its natural path of trajectory, will strike the ground whether the target is missed or hit, and that ground - the back stop - must be solid and of a nature that minimises the risk of deflection. Easy really. The difference between an experienced safe shot and a novice is when backstop awareness becomes an instinctive reflex and is never overriden by nerves or excitement. Edited May 19, 2012 by Gimlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 I have read on several occasions that at about the time of the shot a human strolls into view. Avoid shots that pass close to a concealing object from where a human, or non-target animal could emerge and walk into the shot as it passes. Unfortunately woods are hazardous places for rifle shooters and roaming humans are pests. Ceaseless vigilance is the key. Ballistic tips are a good idea as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) The time of the day that a stalker will be out on his beat (first and last light ) is not the normal time of day that ramblers will normally be walking about the country side . So the stalker is less likely to have a problem with walkers getting in the way . A stalker must know the land that he is shooting over and were he can take a safe shot .The deer themselves are an indicator as to how safe it is reference people walking around . If the deer are happily browsing or walking along with out a care in the world then you can bet that there are no humans with in several hundred yards .If the deer are running at full pelt than that is an indication that the deer are being chased ,most likely by some idiots dog and is an indicator that other humans are around . I have never heard of a case of a rambler being shot by person out shooting deer . Harnser . Edited May 20, 2012 by Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobt Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Ballistic tips are a good idea as well. no way should ballistic tips be used on deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 no way should ballistic tips be used on deer. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) Why? Because ballistic tips are designed to be highly frangiable, the have a tendency to blow up if they strike a solid surface so, for example, if a shot connected with a shoulderblade it may cause a horrendous open wound but not penetrate therefore not kill the beast. For a BT to work you need to ensure it meets with soft tissue.. possibly a challenge at 200yds! If I am going out with the sole intention of neck shooting my quarry (does happen from time to time) then I will considder taking BTs out.. the other 99.9999% of the time it's a Nosler Partition! Edited May 20, 2012 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 I think they are a good bullet if you neck shoot, as i try to do if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 I think they are a good bullet if you neck shoot, as i try to do if possible. But if that's what you have loaded and you can't take a neck shot what do you do? let the beast on it's merry way or use the BT for a boiler room shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Depends. But yes i would do if i had to. BTW to to my topography my longest shot is 150 yards more often than not under 100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Because ballistic tips are designed to be highly frangiable, the have a tendency to blow up if they strike a solid surface so, for example, if a shot connected with a shoulderblade it may cause a horrendous open wound but not penetrate therefore not kill the beast. For a BT to work you need to ensure it meets with soft tissue.. possibly a challenge at 200yds!If I am going out with the sole intention of neck shooting my quarry (does happen from time to time) then I will considder taking BTs out.. the other 99.9999% of the time it's a Nosler Partition! I meant BTs when shooting in woods generally not necessarily stalking, however since we're there how many 200 yd shots do you take in woodland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 I meant BTs when shooting in woods generally not necessarily stalking, however since we're there how many 200 yd shots do you take in woodland? Very few... BUT... frangiable bullets are only acceptable projectiles for neck shots and it's not very often one can get out with the sole intention of neck shooting... too much risk of injury otherwise... and you get bits of metal in your venison! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Because ballistic tips are designed to be highly frangiable, Without wanting to open that very old can of worms, that should read "Some ballistic tips...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Without wanting to open that very old can of worms, that should read "Some ballistic tips...." precisely there are a fair few designed for deer, as for the not walking in woods in Herfordshire it was only that we occasionally shoot deer in woodland seeing as thats where many live To the OP though you don't just loose off rounds at deer on the flat its the same as shooting anything with a rifle you make sure you can see a decent amount of soil behind them and know your ground with relation to footpaths etc. Us Herts shooters I'd suggest are some of the safest out there as we do get far more walkers anywhere than most. My nightmare moments include a dog miles off a footpath coming straight into the fox pro under night vision, could have been very nasty but fortunately we are quite good at waiting for a decent ID, then there was the day in a large private woodland vermin shooting we fond a load of people cowering behind trees at the noise of the squirrels around them receiving some attention, it happens round here people just think footpaths are for fools and private signs are just put up to let them ignore, so you have to be careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30-6 Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Harnser (post 9) Yeah i can see what you mean about stalkers being out at different times to ramblers, but that cannot be guaranteed, and as you said animal behaviour calm and browsing against running and alert should be an indicator of something else about. But i can recall (as can many), a rabbit or fox trotting happily passed you when you are going along quietly yourself, and you see photos of deer where someone has snapped them coming close. But i do agree with your point that situations like this are the exception rather than the rule, and ramblers and stalkers are usually active at different times. The point i was trying to ask was, if a shot is available and the shooter knows 100 percent that there is a safe backstop in the shape of a hill behind the quarry, but between that backstop and the quarry is a spinney say and in the spinney is a poacher shooting say squirrels quietly with an air rifle, said poacher would not be visible to shooter. So does the shooter take the shot assuming that no one is in the spinney knowing he does have a safe backstop or leave the shot just in case someone is in the spinney. I have seen many shots on you tube taken where all you can see behind the quarry is trees or bushes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Harnser (post 9) Yeah i can see what you mean about stalkers being out at different times to ramblers, but that cannot be guaranteed, and as you said animal behaviour calm and browsing against running and alert should be an indicator of something else about. But i can recall (as can many), a rabbit or fox trotting happily passed you when you are going along quietly yourself, and you see photos of deer where someone has snapped them coming close. But i do agree with your point that situations like this are the exception rather than the rule, and ramblers and stalkers are usually active at different times. The point i was trying to ask was, if a shot is available and the shooter knows 100 percent that there is a safe backstop in the shape of a hill behind the quarry, but between that backstop and the quarry is a spinney say and in the spinney is a poacher shooting say squirrels quietly with an air rifle, said poacher would not be visible to shooter. So does the shooter take the shot assuming that no one is in the spinney knowing he does have a safe backstop or leave the shot just in case someone is in the spinney. I have seen many shots on you tube taken where all you can see behind the quarry is trees or bushes. The shooter does not take the shot. IMHO you need to be able to see where the bullet will end up. Trees and/or bushes can actually grow on a hill which could be the backstop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Without wanting to open that very old can of worms, that should read "Some ballistic tips...." yep.. ok.. good point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) what is the recommended calibre for ramblers? Are Ballistic tips acceptable and is there a close season? Edited May 21, 2012 by Bewsher500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 I rang the Ramblers Association last week, the guy just went on and on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Harnser (post 9) Yeah i can see what you mean about stalkers being out at different times to ramblers, but that cannot be guaranteed, and as you said animal behaviour calm and browsing against running and alert should be an indicator of something else about. But i can recall (as can many), a rabbit or fox trotting happily passed you when you are going along quietly yourself, and you see photos of deer where someone has snapped them coming close. But i do agree with your point that situations like this are the exception rather than the rule, and ramblers and stalkers are usually active at different times. The point i was trying to ask was, if a shot is available and the shooter knows 100 percent that there is a safe backstop in the shape of a hill behind the quarry, but between that backstop and the quarry is a spinney say and in the spinney is a poacher shooting say squirrels quietly with an air rifle, said poacher would not be visible to shooter. So does the shooter take the shot assuming that no one is in the spinney knowing he does have a safe backstop or leave the shot just in case someone is in the spinney. I have seen many shots on you tube taken where all you can see behind the quarry is trees or bushes. You are completely misunderstanding the term and requirement of "backstop". A backstop is and should only be the ground in clear view behing ones target. Therefore any and every shot fired is guaranteed to hit the backstop should one miss the target of should the bullet pass through the quarry. Following this principal leaves no room for "what if". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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