Livefast123 Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) agree with you....... why do they dress like sas ? dont tell me its to intimidate people, surely a h&k does that. Points to a dodgy mentality to me. No plod bashing intended just strikes me as a bit suspect Because most officers have a lot of kit to carry around and the best way to do that which doesn't effect your ability to sit down is via a tac vest. So in my case my tac vest carries my radio, CS, handcuffs, baton, Taser and spare catridges, notebook, torch in an easy to get at configuration. So I would rather have all my stuff where I need it rather than worry about what I look like. I've never had anyone comment on how I look, rather people thank me for saving them from their knife wielding ex partner. Taser should be standard issue across the board, the UK agents have just bumped the prices up to £1000 per unit, £25 PER cartridge and £40 for a battery so I can see why forces are slow to take it up. Edited June 17, 2012 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 if you are going to arm, training, training, training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) Yes. The police should be armed but they should also have to be trained in how to use them, and proper training in discipline as well, just to make sure. Gangs and criminals are armed. The police need to be at least equally matched. Edited June 17, 2012 by Reece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Central London, childs play - try working the east end if you want to experience real policing. you're nowt 'til you've done a stint on G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Central London, childs play - try working the east end if you want to experience real policing. you're nowt 'til you've done a stint on G. been there........now north london Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 the British dont arm their police.......and they pay somewhere in the region of 60 million a year not to..... I'd be really interested in some more info on that or a link? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertan_J Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 It worries me that so many people are worried about the ability of the police over here to handle firearms. In my opinion the police in the UK based in urban locations should carry handguns as standard issue might help them take back the streets in places where they are normally seen as toothless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Goodshot Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Gentlemen, (and any Birds if you are not watchin Corry) I am of the opinion that as a Nation we will see more armed officers on the streets day to day,for a specific purpose, the olympics will demonstrate this, we will see the deployment of Anti Aircraft, Javalin Missile units, SAS, SBS, Royal Marines Commandos PLUS THOSE WE CANNOT SEE.. gradually as life continues this show of force, weapons and general SOP will creep in,more and more, it will become accepted that most... Not all will carry firarms... the threat is not going to diminish.. the threat will become more sophisticated, devious and will resort to the most underhand tactics that are imaginable...( this doesnt even touch firearms crime in the uk) No one saw(civilian) the the Twin Towers and the bombings of the London Underground comming, fire arms would not of stopped it but when you are fighting it, be it in in England or Afgahnistan you need to be armed and ready to carry out that detail. Now it has been said that no one joins up or signs on the line to kill people...True.. unavoidable... however.. some individuals ( thankfully) take the responsibility on behalf of a nation as police officers and military personnel to carry arms and discharge them under orders to achieve what is deemed to be right and honest, those men should not be questioned in their duty, they fight for us and for their brothers, they enter into conflict to carry out their mission and to make sure they all come home. Our Police Officers, Military personell, Fire men, Nurses , Ambulance men . Paramedics all work to look after us day to day , I include them because when the **** hits the fan they are generally in the firing line... which one of us wouldnt want a nurse or a fireman in the dark of the London Underground tending to our Burns or saying Im going to get you out of here...US forensic teams carry Guns, the way our emergency teams get treated, bricked , kit stolen, drugs stolen,... and the question was to arm or not to arm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Gentlemen, (and any Birds if you are not watchin Corry) I am of the opinion that as a Nation we will see more armed officers on the streets day to day,for a specific purpose, the olympics will demonstrate this, we will see the deployment of Anti Aircraft, Javalin Missile units, SAS, SBS, Royal Marines Commandos PLUS THOSE WE CANNOT SEE.. gradually as life continues this show of force, weapons and general SOP will creep in,more and more, it will become accepted that most... Not all will carry firarms... the threat is not going to diminish.. the threat will become more sophisticated, devious and will resort to the most underhand tactics that are imaginable...( this doesnt even touch firearms crime in the uk) No one saw(civilian) the the Twin Towers and the bombings of the London Underground comming, fire arms would not of stopped it but when you are fighting it, be it in in England or Afgahnistan you need to be armed and ready to carry out that detail. Now it has been said that no one joins up or signs on the line to kill people...True.. unavoidable... however.. some individuals ( thankfully) take the responsibility on behalf of a nation as police officers and military personnel to carry arms and discharge them under orders to achieve what is deemed to be right and honest, those men should not be questioned in their duty, they fight for us and for their brothers, they enter into conflict to carry out their mission and to make sure they all come home. Our Police Officers, Military personell, Fire men, Nurses , Ambulance men . Paramedics all work to look after us day to day , I include them because when the **** hits the fan they are generally in the firing line... which one of us wouldnt want a nurse or a fireman in the dark of the London Underground tending to our Burns or saying Im going to get you out of here...US forensic teams carry Guns, the way our emergency teams get treated, bricked , kit stolen, drugs stolen,... and the question was to arm or not to arm... :blink: Not quite sure what you're trying to say there fella. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottonseed Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Not arm all police with a sidearm but i think every police car should carry a shotgun plus a variety of lethal / non-lethal rounds and all officers trained in their use , Charlie Bird might have been prevented from killing so many people if the police car following had the means to stop him . + 1 I believe that's the best compromise. But the guns shouldn't come out of the car unless a firearms incident is happening, or about to happen. The Derek Bird and Hungerford murders are good examples where this would have been a useful measure. Some of the tits I've met from the police, however, are totally unfot to be trusted with a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 The truth is the country is a mess something needs to be done and needs to be done right away. The crimanal justice system is a joke aswell. Slap on the rist and pathetic sentances. As for the prisons ther more like hotel rooms no wonder they do what they do. Lock serious criminals up and throw away the key. This should be the attitude of our government and lets see whos keen to comit these crimes But if we look at say, the American system where 'life' means 'life,' sentencing is harsh (watched a program once where a chap had got 11 years for accounting fraud, something he would have probably got a community order for over here or a suspended sentence at worst... he got into a couple of fights inside and inadvertantly hit a guard and is now gfacing 130 years with no chance of parole! up to now he has been in solitary for 5 of them!!) and prisons, in the main are anything but comfy & cozy... And yet... even with the death penaly a real possibility in some states, there is more crime there than here (relative to the size of the population)... So.... I don't think harsher sentencing is a real deterent at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 If we had the proliferation of guns like in the States then maybe, but given our very strict firearm controls and the ban on handguns then the average bobby doesn't need tooling up, and tooling up the average bobby presents all manner of problems in itself. Andy.... that's a VERY profound statement... I'm slightly shocked and aghast in fact!!!! Are you suggesting that if our firearms laws were slightly more relaxed and we didn't have the handgun ban than there would be more call to have more armed police??? It's the bad guys with guns I worry about not the FAC holding law abiding shooters as we all are on here!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 I'd be really interested in some more info on that or a link? Thanks just shows your general lack of interest in politics.....un-fortunately i am not allowed to be a member of a political party.......but i email them regularly and ask questions regarding how certain matters affect me......including speaking to the UKIP representative for my area.......they have a lot of figures of how much we pay the EU to be a member and the fine for not arming police is one of them. whether that means we should arm the police or come out of the EU (and save even more money by doing so) i am not sure in further thought on this matter, i have concluded that a weapon like this would be a better compromise and far better than a taser also. http://imzcorp.com/en/company/111.html could be used against anyone or anything posing a threat, effectively the same as a baton strike but with the ability to hit at a further range than purely arm's reach. a shotgun and bean bag rounds would be similar idea, but this could be carried on a belt, pocket or handbag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 But if we look at say, the American system where 'life' means 'life,' sentencing is harsh (watched a program once where a chap had got 11 years for accounting fraud, something he would have probably got a community order for over here or a suspended sentence at worst... he got into a couple of fights inside and inadvertantly hit a guard and is now gfacing 130 years with no chance of parole! up to now he has been in solitary for 5 of them!!) and prisons, in the main are anything but comfy & cozy... And yet... even with the death penaly a real possibility in some states, there is more crime there than here (relative to the size of the population)... So.... I don't think harsher sentencing is a real deterent at all! there are many cultural differences between the UK and the states.......and there if the old bill shoot someone they tend to assume the bad guy was a bad guy and are thankful that the police shot him.....here there are too many liberals all too willing to belief that the old bill got it wrong and instead of thanking them for putting themselves in danger and removing a dangerous person they scrutinise them and they have to prove their innocence .......more likely to face a court than a commendation. we are more akin to europe in our culture .....and again they carry guns in europe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 and regarding the olympics and all the recent celebrations in the capital. i have a friend whose brother was in the army...........apparently when her majesty celebrated 30 years on the throne.....his brother stood and watched the entire celebration from the crowd in the mall wearing jeans and a bomber jacket with a pistol under his jacket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 But if we look at say, the American system where 'life' means 'life,' sentencing is harsh (watched a program once where a chap had got 11 years for accounting fraud, something he would have probably got a community order for over here or a suspended sentence at worst... he got into a couple of fights inside and inadvertantly hit a guard and is now gfacing 130 years with no chance of parole! up to now he has been in solitary for 5 of them!!) and prisons, in the main are anything but comfy & cozy... And yet... even with the death penaly a real possibility in some states, there is more crime there than here (relative to the size of the population)... So.... I don't think harsher sentencing is a real deterent at all! I agree that harsher sentancing is no deterent, but the longer someone is locked up the longer they can't commit crime. I hear it all the time in my job that prison is useless ect,,,,,, if Billy Burglar is locked away, then he can't break into our homes so prison does work. We just need more of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 I agree that harsher sentancing is no deterent, but the longer someone is locked up the longer they can't commit crime. I hear it all the time in my job that prison is useless ect,,,,,, if Billy Burglar is locked away, then he can't break into our homes so prison does work. We just need more of them. there was an article in a newspaper a while ago about the cost benefits of locking up criminals, not reforming them just locking them up. Allowing court, police, solicitors bill's, plus the damages to victims adding up all the costs of someone committing a property crime and weighing that up against the cost of prison and prison was a massive saving........then estimating the number of crimes that a burglar or thief will commit per year, the number that are reported and allowing for a few that were not reported. we need more prisons and longer sentences not that prison works (my wife is an ex prison officer) but just to keep the bad people away from the rest of us for longer i feel we need a massive political swing in this country we are a shadow of our formers selves in the UK, we have always been fair and compassionate, but we did used to be harder. there are too many rights and not enough responsibilities in this country now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Not arm all police with a sidearm but i think every police car should carry a shotgun plus a variety of lethal / non-lethal rounds and all officers trained in their use , Charlie Bird might have been prevented from killing so many people if the police car following had the means to stop him . If people do not like the idea of giving police hand guns this has to be the perfect solution have a shotgun locked in a strong safe it the boot of there patrol cars for use in emergencies it could also be used for humane kill of animals hurt on country roads. we used to see this in the old american films there was always a shogun secured in the front of there cars makes sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Having been to places like Germany and seen all police armed then i would like to see this however ..... Before arming all our police the standards required of an officer should be considerably higher esp in phsyically as we seem to have to right scruffy unfit members in our police forces. How ever they arnt likely to improve the standards of a basic officer so the compromise i wuld say is all police should carry a taser pistol and each car should carry a tazar shotgun ! And i believe the training and standards for a police officer carrying leathal firearms should be overhalled and improved with better education standards and training ! I personally fear being around firearms officers, esp the ones at my work place ! Iv seen them and spoke to them and they dont come across well or fill you with much confidence, esp the one whos currently suspended after accidently tasering himself ! Also who ever it was that said MOD police are well equiped must be smoking something, our lots kit is tatty old worn dated and poor quallity. And as out of curiosity i would be interested to know,what people belive our current armed police can and cant do and what they do actually do. And then hear what people belive the firearms teams should be able to do and what the poilce`s take on that would be ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 If people do not like the idea of giving police hand guns this has to be the perfect solution have a shotgun locked in a strong safe it the boot of there patrol cars for use in emergencies it could also be used for humane kill of animals hurt on country roads. we used to see this in the old american films there was always a shogun secured in the front of there cars makes sense to me. a sensible compromise.......but when seconds count the car could be a long way off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Also who ever it was that said MOD police are well equiped must be smoking something, our lots kit is tatty old worn dated and poor quallity. That's because all the good kit goes to the CNC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Also the mod plod only shoot to 50yards with 1 day shoot, 1 night shoot and 1 twilight. If a 50 meter range isnt available then they use a 25meter range ! I was shocked to seem them lose the side arm option once the new H&K MP7 came in ! Personally they should of kept the 9mm side arm or a 38 side arm and had both the 4.62 and 9mm smg option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 People are claiming that the standard of our police is so bad compared to other countries where there police routinely carry arms that they could not be trusted with them what a load of clap trap I for one would have no problems with them all being armed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Putting aside if the police in the rest of the UK should be armed. As i have said the police here are armed not just on duty they also take their pistol home men and women i put in men and women because one poster tough women wouldn't be able to handle a pistol. My question why do so many posters think the police in the rest of the UK would be incapable of carrying a firearm without the world coming to an end. Do they think the police in the rest of the UK are some how different and less capable than they are here.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Putting aside if the police in the rest of the UK should be armed. As i have said the police here are armed not just on duty they also take their pistol home men and women i put in men and women because one poster tough women wouldn't be able to handle a pistol. My question why do so many posters think the police in the rest of the UK would be incapable of carrying a firearm without the world coming to an end. Do they think the police in the rest of the UK are some how different and less capable than they are here.? Most I suspect have little/no knowledge of Uk training/standards , at least the Police/Military have structured training before they carry unlike the majority of civilian shooters . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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