noxop666 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 one of the guys that delivers to our shop as just told me his dog was shot last week. it ran into a neighbours field . and was shop by the gamekeeper . for running after pheasants. the chap is crushed i have shot for over 40 years in many forms . and understand that certain {livestock} require protection .but to shoot a dog for this . or im i getting this all wrong. interesting comments please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 my understanding is if dog got into pen then can deem the poults to be livestock.Beyond that I think the keeper is out of order(unless their are lambs/other livestock)..especially as a neighbour and presumably knows the owner/dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 very iffy ground for the keeper, livestock doesn't usually include pheasants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark47 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 All dogs can make mistakes .A stearn warning would have been enough but this not the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorchyboy Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 i totally agree with the above the gamekeeper was well out of order,i would take up the matter with the local police,and take out a private prosecution against him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry31 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Its a very grey area yp here on the hills of lancs where I shoot over sheep land we get dogs on occasion my understanding is that on the first time of seeing said dog to shoot it would be criminal damage but on repeated sightings can be shot. This is the advice given by our firearms dept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Morris Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Forgetting for a moment the rights and wrongs of shooting dogs for stock worrying and also not to get into an argument over the definition of stock was this dog shot with a shotgun or a rifle? My understanding is it is legal to shoot a dog in the act of worrying stock with a shotgun. A rifle is a different thing and you will find that the Police Firearms Departments do NOT put dogs on the quarry list to be shot with rifles. The effect of this is that if the dog was shot with a rifle the person who shot it acted outside the terms of his Firearms Certificate and may be prosecuted by the Police for what is a Firearms offense. Please bear in mind this is only my understanding of the way things work and it is possible I am mistaken but I think not. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larp Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 very iffy ground for the keeper, livestock doesn't usually include pheasants if the pheasants are in a pen then they are livestock still no reason to shoot a dog that gamekeeper should have a lot of problems with his birds for the rest of his time on that shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Forgetting for a moment the rights and wrongs of shooting dogs for stock worrying and also not to get into an argument over the definition of stock was this dog shot with a shotgun or a rifle? My understanding is it is legal to shoot a dog in the act of worrying stock with a shotgun. A rifle is a different thing and you will find that the Police Firearms Departments do NOT put dogs on the quarry list to be shot with rifles. The effect of this is that if the dog was shot with a rifle the person who shot it acted outside the terms of his Firearms Certificate and may be prosecuted by the Police for what is a Firearms offense. Please bear in mind this is only my understanding of the way things work and it is possible I am mistaken but I think not. Tony. unless you have the condition "shooting other animals for the protection of people or other animals" or words to that effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint1 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 My understanding is it is legal to shoot a dog in the act of worrying stock with a shotgun. A dog worrying stock with a shotgun is indeed very worrying, as is the standard of literacy on this forum, *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Would have rang the police. Worst scenario he was legal but I doubt it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 We don't know all the facts here, but playing devils advocate for a moment, If the dog had gotten into the release pen, and started killing poults and the keeper shot it to protect his livelihood. Then why do people feel the need to make threats against him on the internet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graiglearn Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 We don't know all the facts here, but playing devils advocate for a moment, If the dog had gotten into the release pen, and started killing poults and the keeper shot it to protect his livelihood. Then why do people feel the need to make threats against him on the internet? well said Big man ,threats like that usually end up costing licence grant or removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 We don't know all the facts here, but playing devils advocate for a moment, If the dog had gotten into the release pen, and started killing poults and the keeper shot it to protect his livelihood. Then why do people feel the need to make threats against him on the internet? Quite. I have every sympathy with someone who loses their dog in such circumstances but can't we grow up and stop with the threats. Fine bunch we look spouting that on the forum when in another breath we're encouraged to write to our MEPs. :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 I should add on a serious note - if the dog was roamin free off the lead and chasing birds on this keepers ground then he was right to shoot it in my opinion. Sorry, but if it was some chav's staffie then no one would bat an eye - this is no different from the keepers point of view. Regards, Gixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 I should add on a serious note - if the dog was roamin free off the lead and chasing birds on this keepers ground then he was right to shoot it in my opinion. Sorry, but if it was some chav's staffie then no one would bat an eye - this is no different from the keepers point of view. Regards, Gixer Gixer, I don't really care about said persons dog but there's ways of doing things. A few warnings before the bang and then it's fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graiglearn Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 I should add on a serious note - if the dog was roamin free off the lead and chasing birds on this keepers ground then he was right to shoot it in my opinion. Sorry, but if it was some chav's staffie then no one would bat an eye - this is no different from the keepers point of view. Regards, Gixer realistic opinion ,some a bit too eager to condemn without facts , what if it was a child being worried would you stand by and say bad dog.again the owner not the dogs fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 unless you have the condition "shooting other animals for the protection of people or other animals" or words to that effect There is no such condition as this attached to firearms, only to expanding ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 To the OP I would say, find out the exact facts. Was the dog in a release pen killing poults, if so then the keeper was justified in his actions. If the dog was in a field then the pheasants were in law wild birds not livestock and therefore the keeper has no defence should your mate wish to sue him for damages. Also remember that if the dog was in a release pen killing birds the keeper would be justified in pursuing a claim for damages against your pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Gixer, I don't really care about said persons dog but there's ways of doing things. A few warnings before the bang and then it's fair enough. Tell a keeper that when he's on the verge of loosing his job due to dog's and dog walkers, ******, buzzards and all the other things that effect him whilst trying to rear suicidal pheasants! As has been said this is the owners fault and unfortunately the dog paid for it... Regards, Gixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthedug Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 As previously mentioned, its difficult to give definitive answer without knowing the facts BUT pheasants can indeed be classed as "livestock" and if they are reared or kept in connection with the owners livelihood, the owner can indeed shot a dog if its worrying them. Got to say also guys (and girls) pretty poor the number of posters hinting at retribution against the gamekeeper when we do not know the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 As previously mentioned, its difficult to give definitive answer without knowing the facts BUT pheasants can indeed be classed as "livestock" and if they are reared or kept in connection with the owners livelihood, the owner can indeed shot a dog if its worrying them. Got to say also guys (and girls) pretty poor the number of posters hinting at retribution against the gamekeeper when we do not know the facts. I agree on the retribution and remember - keepers aren't usually "toothless" so be aware that they (and thier friends) may also take offence to anyone messing with thier lively hood! Regards, Gixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toogood*10 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 thats a bit out of order, fair enough a couple of warning shots,pheasants are bread to be killed dogs are pets. should of just charged him for the bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graiglearn Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Tell a keeper that when he's on the verge of loosing his job due to dog's and dog walkers, ******, buzzards and all the other things that effect him whilst trying to rear suicidal pheasants! As has been said this is the owners fault and unfortunately the dog paid for it... Regards, Gixer I know a few keepers that have lost jobs because Publicity like this by so called 'sportsmen' who have never tried to rear a bird,turning up and asking why there are no birds ,after the poor guy had worked his guts out only to be destroyed by tree huggers , and people making comments who have never even trained a dog wondering why a wild dog in the beating line was chastised in front of them 'for only enjoying itself' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graiglearn Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 thats a bit out of order, fair enough a couple of warning shots,pheasants are bread to be killed dogs are pets. should of just charged him for the bird. Sorry my dogs take offence ,they are working dogs and enjoy life as such ,NOT pets or potlickers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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