fieldwanderer Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 :s how do I put this...... I'm a rifle shooter, even competed internationally! But I'm not so good with a shotgun, I've had them for the last 10yrs or so and I have good days (rarely) and bad days, I've spent some time on the clays and done reasonable, I've read books and put lots of lead down several barrels but I just don't seem to be improving really. To be honest, I'm considering paying to go to a fully blown shooting school (as opposed to lessons at a clay ground) but I'm sure 10yrs worth of bad habits is going to be a nightmare to break! What would you suggest and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 How bad is bad? If your a rifle shooter, you might be shooting the targets as you would with a rifle. Aiming, taking your time, calculating lead and so on as you would with a rifle does not work with a shotgun. It's instinctive when using a shotgun, no thinking or aiming should go on. I can think of a couple of rifle shots who do this with a shotgun, even after many years of it. Perhaps a couple of hours with a good coach would tell you why your not improving. I take it from your post you've had a few lessons at a clay ground? What are they saying as to why your missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aga man Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 :s how do I put this...... I'm a rifle shooter, even competed internationally! But I'm not so good with a shotgun, I've had them for the last 10yrs or so and I have good days (rarely) and bad days, I've spent some time on the clays and done reasonable, I've read books and put lots of lead down several barrels but I just don't seem to be improving really. To be honest, I'm considering paying to go to a fully blown shooting school (as opposed to lessons at a clay ground) but I'm sure 10yrs worth of bad habits is going to be a nightmare to break! What would you suggest and why? a lesson with a coach is not a bad idea. rifle and shotgun shooting are worlds apart. try to point the shotgun rather than aim it like a rifle. make sure when you mount and point the shotgun that your eye looks down the rib and lines up with the bead. swing through the target from behind. as you pass the front or beak of the target pull the trigger but keep the gun moving. try to keep both eyes open as this will improve your field of vision. range an lead etc is dependant on the range and speed of the target. practice on the clays and get a lesson or two if you can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) :s how do I put this...... I'm a rifle shooter, even competed internationally! But I'm not so good with a shotgun, I've had them for the last 10yrs or so and I have good days (rarely) and bad days, I've spent some time on the clays and done reasonable, I've read books and put lots of lead down several barrels but I just don't seem to be improving really. To be honest, I'm considering paying to go to a fully blown shooting school (as opposed to lessons at a clay ground) but I'm sure 10yrs worth of bad habits is going to be a nightmare to break! What would you suggest and why? Check the BASC and CPSA Coaches list for your area, and then ask around to find out which coach is the best to use. Most of the help at clay grounds will be good but basic, a coach will go back to basics, eye dominance,gunfit and stance for example and then move you forward. Edited August 4, 2012 by bakerboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted August 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Ah, I didn't think my post through very well - I know the two are worlds apart, to be honest I think my problem is that when I started out with a shotgun I did "rifle" everything and now that I know that's wrong I'm doing somewhere between wrong and right. I've never had any lessons, other than informal hints and tips. On average, I can hit about 12-20 0n DTL and roughly 12-16 on ball trap, in the field it varies much more wildly - the other day I fired roughly 50 and hit maybe 8 pigeons And I was sat at the bottom of a "sitty" tree so all nice easy shots. Other days I hit nearly every shot I fire yet don't feel I've done anything any differently. The book I took to following is "art of good shooting" by J.E.M something or other, the way he says to shoot makes a lot of sense but, for some reason, I just cant seem to bring myself to pull the trigger as the gun gets into my shoulder and cheek without "aiming" - those thousands of pellets and bullets down the ranges really left their mark (not that that's a bad thing when I take the rifle out). I will admit though that I'm not a great believer in shooting clays to "practice", I watch the clays and can't help but think "it's pretty bloomin rare to see any pigeons "present" a target like any of those" I do believe rough/game shooters can polish their technique to a certain extent or "get their eye in" after close season or whatever but, personally, I think there's much more to it than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Ah, I didn't think my post through very well - I know the two are worlds apart, to be honest I think my problem is that when I started out with a shotgun I did "rifle" everything and now that I know that's wrong I'm doing somewhere between wrong and right. I've never had any lessons, other than informal hints and tips. On average, I can hit about 12-20 0n DTL and roughly 12-16 on ball trap, in the field it varies much more wildly - the other day I fired roughly 50 and hit maybe 8 pigeons And I was sat at the bottom of a "sitty" tree so all nice easy shots. Other days I hit nearly every shot I fire yet don't feel I've done anything any differently. The book I took to following is "art of good shooting" by J.E.M something or other, the way he says to shoot makes a lot of sense but, for some reason, I just cant seem to bring myself to pull the trigger as the gun gets into my shoulder and cheek without "aiming" - those thousands of pellets and bullets down the ranges really left their mark (not that that's a bad thing when I take the rifle out). I will admit though that I'm not a great believer in shooting clays to "practice", I watch the clays and can't help but think "it's pretty bloomin rare to see any pigeons "present" a target like any of those" I do believe rough/game shooters can polish their technique to a certain extent or "get their eye in" after close season or whatever but, personally, I think there's much more to it than that. If it is Pigeons you are after rather than clays, than it it a completely different ball game. Try and organise a day out with protom who is in your area. I am sure he will sort you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 The book I took to following is "art of good shooting" by J.E.M something or other, the way he says to shoot makes a lot of sense but, for some reason, I just cant seem to bring myself to pull the trigger as the gun gets into my shoulder and cheek without "aiming" - those thousands of pellets and bullets down the ranges really left their mark (not that that's a bad thing when I take the rifle out). 'Rufferite' (Major JEM Ruffer), eh? It doesn't work for everybody - well it does but for some not at first. For pigeon/game shooting some qualified instruction on "The Method" is not a bad idea. This system lends itself particularly well for live quarry and once you've got to grips with it you'll come to realise that in principle it is indeed virtually what Ruffer was saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bolt94 Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 I recently had a lesson as I am only starting into Clays and I was aiming at them like I would with my rifle (not that I would shoot clays with a rifle). The key thing is look at the clay/target and rely on hand eye coordination to bring the shotgun into the correct position. Bring gun to cheek and keep both eyes open, don't try aim or they are usually out of range. A lesson would be great I benefited loads!! Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jega Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Here you go mate and its fairly close to your neck of the woods. http://www.pinewoodsg.co.uk/aboutus.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted August 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Thanks for the advice all, I've spent quite a while since this thread trying to figure out what's wrong - I can do it no problem when it comes to my rifle shooting but I'm lost with this. My shooting buddy and I had a play yesterday evening with his clay trap and I can hit every single clay going straight towards or away from me but not much else, I'm 90% sure I don't have a dominant eye so squinting or closing my left eye's the only way (or I get some very drunk views of top and left hand side of the barrels and at least two clays in the air!!). We're off to orston this Sunday so I'll try to speak to someone about some instruction, I'll also mention "the method" hopefully it'll make more sense to them than it does to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Thanks for the advice all, I've spent quite a while since this thread trying to figure out what's wrong - I can do it no problem when it comes to my rifle shooting but I'm lost with this. My shooting buddy and I had a play yesterday evening with his clay trap and I can hit every single clay going straight towards or away from me but not much else, I'm 90% sure I don't have a dominant eye so squinting or closing my left eye's the only way (or I get some very drunk views of top and left hand side of the barrels and at least two clays in the air!!). We're off to orston this Sunday so I'll try to speak to someone about some instruction, I'll also mention "the method" hopefully it'll make more sense to them than it does to me! There are several tests you can do to check eye dominance, i'm not going to list them here as you clearly need the some time with a good coach to sort out all the myriad of things that you are doing that are intuitive because of your rifle shooting and he will be far better placed to diagnose your etye dominancy. Wherever you go try to get the services of a coach rather than just the grounds beginners instructor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 A fully blown shooting school is a clay ground + ££££ depends on where you are shooting and what! Find a respected instructor locally and speak to them, skeet is a better practise round than DTL or Ball trap and can expose issues that occur in the feild as you have all angles, trap is only going away to max quartering away no incoming or crossing targets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 You can shoot dtl, abt and going away or incommers with limited technique and you will still hit a few as you have seen. You need to learn a solid base technique to take into the field, an this needs to be done on clays, with the help of a decent sporting coach. Go on recommendations not just badges. You need to learn a consistent way of putting lead onto a bird as opposed to point and shoot as you are doing at the moment. You won't get much help from a book, decent coaching is what will make the difference. And you don't want to try and learn to shoot on pigeons- it will take 10 times as long and you will do more harm than good in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 That's the problem, 10 years of trying to hit pigeons = 10 years of bad habits on top of being primarily a rifle shooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 I do not profess to be any sort of a GURU on rifle shooting and my record on clay shooting leaves a lot to be desired, but my clay shooting has improved of late through one main thing. Just like you I am predoninantly a rifle shooter and as such whenever I went on aim with a shotgun my leaft eye automatically closed, just as it would when aiming a rifle. What I have been working on recently has been to force myself to keep both eyes open when shooting with the shotgun and it really has improved my shotgun shooting! It is not easy to break from the habit of a lifetime and not closing the other eye when using a shotgun but if you can discipline yourself to keep both eyes open when using your shotgun it is highly likely that you will see an improvement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted August 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 I can't do that unfortunately f.b, I get a drunken view of two barells and anywhere from none to three clays / birds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Do you wear glasses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon pete Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 i had the same ,shot with a shotgun most of my life ,then when i started to shoot with a rifle it all went out the window ,found out it was because i was shooting POA and loosing the lead ,then i found out i am a right hand shooter and left eye dominant !!! well screwed lol ,also i was using all sorts of ammo ,try and stick to one sort of ammo ,i borrowed a lazer bore sight and practiced my gun mounting ,and found out the gun don't fit ,so i made a stock riser ,i even tried the sight beads to go on the end of your barrel , don't use a new sight bead as if your gun fits you ,you shouldn't see your barrel you should olny see your target ,,it will do your head in for a while but you will get there ,i find if iam in the hide and can see a pigeon coming from a far and waiting for it i miss the thing ,but if a pigeon comes from out of the blue and i haven't got time to think of it the gun is up and its down ,my m8 has the same problem lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bolt94 Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 In terms of seeing more than one clay, ensure the gun is unloaded obviously and mount it while looking in a mirror. You may notice your head is tilted to the right, an instructor told me that this tilting can cause distortion of your vision and yo need to keep your eyes level. Give it a go and see if it helps! (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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